The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

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Fuujin
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:54 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Fuujin » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:30 am

Kryyg wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:13 am
Whoever created this needs to stick to the books and not to trying to appease every retype of people, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation. RoJo didn’t write the book for that.
Yeah, he wrote a book depicting all kinds of people, ethnicities, orientations, and cultures, so shame on the show for depicting the same with a little more tact and a little less ignorance than what RJ wrote. There's all kinds of reasons one can criticize the show, but "omg diversity is ruining everything" is, has, and will always be a dung take

isabel
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by isabel » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:37 am

Harry Potter, with a plot that drew heavily on the language of anti-racism, had exactly five students of colour in the original movies, none of them major characters, all of them stereotypes.

Lotr descriptions (replicated in the films):

"In the good corner, the riders of Rohan, aka the "Whiteskins": "Yellow is their hair, and bright are their spears. Their leader is very tall." In the evil corner, the orcs of Isengard: "A grim, dark band... swart, slant-eyed" and the "dark" wild men of the hills. So the good guys are white and the bad guys are, erm... black."

You must be really desensitised if all this - a main cast of "purebloods" was not jarring, but diversity on screen is too much people appeasement. Because people from different races/ethnicities/sexual orientations -shouldnt- see people like themselves on mainstream television?

Kryyg
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:52 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Kryyg » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:47 am

Fuujin wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:30 am
Kryyg wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:13 am
Whoever created this needs to stick to the books and not to trying to appease every retype of people, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation. RoJo didn’t write the book for that.
Yeah, he wrote a book depicting all kinds of people, ethnicities, orientations, and cultures, so shame on the show for depicting the same with a little more tact and a little less ignorance than what RJ wrote. There's all kinds of reasons one can criticize the show, but "omg diversity is ruining everything" is, has, and will always be a dung take
Yes, I just literally praised GoT which had all of those things and it was wonderful and in keeping with the books as I saw them. My personal take on the WoT universe is different than yours so now I’m ignorant. It’s just my preference as you have yours. You have no idea who I am so your judgement is quite hurtful. But I suspect you must be some special type of chortlesnorfling moron.

I don’t like the show very much for some of the reasons I posted and there are many more which I have posted along with everyone else in previous threads. I’m pleased you guys like it and have not resorted to insulting you guys. I could say “wow only morons would like this trash.” I don’t think that. Everyone has their own tastes. Maybe you two should be more accepting of all people and opinions.

Fuujin
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:54 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Fuujin » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:10 am

Kryyg wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:47 am
Fuujin wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:30 am
Kryyg wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:13 am
Whoever created this needs to stick to the books and not to trying to appease every retype of people, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation. RoJo didn’t write the book for that.
Yeah, he wrote a book depicting all kinds of people, ethnicities, orientations, and cultures, so shame on the show for depicting the same with a little more tact and a little less ignorance than what RJ wrote. There's all kinds of reasons one can criticize the show, but "omg diversity is ruining everything" is, has, and will always be a dung take
My personal take on the WoT universe is different than yours so now I’m ignorant. It’s just my preference as you have yours. You have no idea who I am so your judgement is quite hurtful.
Spare me the fake tears, I never called -you- ignorant. I said the show is depicting the aforementioned things with 'a little more tact and a little less ignorance than what RJ wrote'.

isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by isabel » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:32 pm

Kryyg, this is what you said "Whoever created this needs to stick to the books and not to trying to appease every retype of people, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation."

Is diversity casting really to blame for bad screenplay/acting/sets etc? Maybe it's going a bit overboard (with the no rand time especially) but shows have been going the other way for eons now (from friends to Harry Potter and everything in between).

I completely agreed with you that a lot of it was really bad. Moments like when egwene looks at the amyrlin seat and moiraine says "funny I had the same reaction" and the camera actually stays on egwene's back the entire time so we don't get to see -what- that reaction is, almost as if the director didn't trust the actor or set to carry that moment. I just don't see why the axe of disapproval has to land on the diversity inclusion.

Ashlee
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:02 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Ashlee » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:46 pm

Kryyg wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:13 am
This show sucks. Why was the Amytilin crying when she banished her. So idiotic if it’s supposed to be a big secret. We understand she won’t be getting moirainr on her knees for some licky licky but for their great mission she shouldn’t give it away!

dung acting, dung scenery, shitty plot. I don’t understand how non viewers could like it, especially after movie adaptations such as LoTR, GoT and even Harry Potter did a million times better job. Whoever created this needs to stick to the books and not to trying to appease every retype of people, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation. RoJo didn’t write the book for that.
Hard disagree with everything you said. But hey, art is subjective! I’m sorry it isn’t meeting your expectations.

Kryyg
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:52 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Kryyg » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:16 pm

Yes. My review may have been a bit over zealous. I guess it’s just such a massive disappointment for me. I don’t feel like they have held true to the books or story and on top of that, I find the deviations from the book so flimsy, dull and eye roll nauseating. I don’t think it will build a base to keep people interested in the story. So many omissions from the EoTW that are threads throughout the entire series are going to be lost. Happy to be proven wrong here.

asharek
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:35 pm

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by asharek » Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:48 pm

Yeah I feel bad for you guys trying to attain the shawl in game but now is just attaining the ring based on what Katherine said. Might just be me but going from accepted to sedai, I always think of receiving the shawl first versus the ring. Also, the shawl is a storytelling tool that's becomes an even more of important symbol in later books *schism*. Did they not have an expert that supposedly read the books? On that note, did that person not read up to I don't know where Egwene was against Elaida's idea of using the Oath rod for loyalty compulsion? That scene kinda paints Siuan in a bad light.

Sedai players that rp lots question for you as my knowledge of the inner workings of the tower is limited.. does the Amyrlin seat have the power to meddle in ajah business or is it an overstep in her power if she was to force them into what she wants done?

Man if their budget was similar to s8 GOT and by that time was a phenom, what did they spend their money on? I'm sure Amazon made bank the past 2 years and would have invested even more if it gained the momentum GOT did early seasons. I remember reading somewhere that HBO was willing to give D&D as many seasons they needed to finish out GOT as they would have profited even more but they rushed it and we know what happened, unfortunately that dance seems like it's being repeated.

I was confused by this.. did Moraine enter Tel'aran'rhiod via gateway while channeling into a ter'angrael or was she asleep and thats how they showed her enter it?

Last thing wondering about is.. does Mangler exist in the show? I swear that's the only way you can explain how those trollocs got to EF with the waygate changes.

halfhand
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:12 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by halfhand » Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:04 pm

asharek wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:48 pm
I was confused by this.. did Moraine enter Tel'aran'rhiod via gateway while channeling into a ter'angrael or was she asleep and thats how they showed her enter it?
It is not ter'arhan'rhoid. It is confirmed by Amazon in the timeline feature that is an actual gateway ter'angreal

"25 Adar, 998 NE
Moiraine and the Amyrlin Seat
Moiraine utilized the ter'angreal in her room to open a gateway to a riverside hut in the Fingers of the Dragon Delta, where she met with Siuan Sanche, the Amyrlin Seat. Secretly lovers, the two conspired to have Moiraine take the five potential Dragon Reborns to the Eye of the World without the White Tower's knowledge. But, in order to do so, Moiraine would have to make a truly great sacrifice."

as well from the Objects xray feature
"There are objects of the One Power created for specific purposes. Some of these objects do very mundane things like play music or create fabric, while others act as doorways to different places, spaces or experiences."


I will say my annoyance with the shawl thing is not that shawls aren't seen. If they wanted to remove shawls from the TV series because it didn't look great visually, fine. But, they mentioned the shawl multiple times in the episode, so it is clearly supposed to still exist, so why is no one ever wearing it then. Making a purposeful change for story or visual purposes is fine with me, but when you make it inconsistently, it raises an eyebrow if there is actual oversight between art and writing team.

Dinuc
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:53 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Dinuc » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:25 pm

Fuujin wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:10 am
Spare me the fake tears, I never called -you- ignorant. I said the show is depicting the aforementioned things with 'a little more tact and a little less ignorance than what RJ wrote'.
And he said the show should have been created as RJ wrote it so by association it is also calling him ignorant.

I don't remember the books enough to figure out what exactly RJ wrote that was ignorant...

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