The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

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isabel
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Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by isabel » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:19 am

@dinuc - no one besides you brought up your skin colour. I have no idea who you are. You just seem to have zero understanding of what cultural stereotypes look like, and zero interest in learning. To me that makes your opinion on whether something is racist or not worthless. If that feels like an attack (and not just a factual statement), I'd look harder at who is the one getting easily offended here.

isabel
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by isabel » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:22 am

iria wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:52 am
Hmm isn't Rand the only redhead we've seen so far? Would've been nice if he was a bit taller, but I imagine they found the fella to be the best fit despite not being a foot taller than everyone. Would've been good if they had made some more comments on it so the non book readers knew that it was a thing, so it wasn't just Loial in episode 5 commenting on it.
Yeah and the other weird continuity problem is that in episode 6 siuan off-handedly mentions dreams about the eotw and suddenly they take off for there like it's now the main goal. It just felt so random - should have established something beforehand so it had some weight.

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Kordin » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:27 am

iria wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:52 am
Hmm isn't Rand the only redhead we've seen so far? Would've been nice if he was a bit taller, but I imagine they found the fella to be the best fit despite not being a foot taller than everyone. Would've been good if they had made some more comments on it so the non book readers knew that it was a thing, so it wasn't just Loial in episode 5 commenting on it.
Wasn't the dead Aiel in ep 3 also a redhead?

When Mat goes to the body and Thom asks him what he's doing.

Dinuc
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:53 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Dinuc » Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:52 am

isabel wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:19 am
You just seem to have zero understanding of what cultural stereotypes look like, and zero interest in learning. To me that makes your opinion on whether something is racist or not worthless.
I don't want to pollute this thread with Harry Potter, so just read the following link if you are actually interested in learning. It is hilarious that you would think I have no clue on cultural stereotypes. The chance that you have lived in and visited and worked with more nationalities than I have is very very small. My experience comes from real life, not from twitter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/co ... cho_chang/

There are definitely groups that look at any diversity as an attack and they are chasing boogeymen, like the female 007. But there is also groups that look at the most bizarre things to call out as racist, like the character Cho Chang, and they are also chasing boogeymen. Both groups need to get out more.

With so many nationalities and plot devices in WoT, I don't think it is ridiculous to question the casting and the choices for diversity in this show.
Last edited by Dinuc on Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

iria
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Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by iria » Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:30 am

Kordin wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:27 am
iria wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:52 am
Hmm isn't Rand the only redhead we've seen so far? Would've been nice if he was a bit taller, but I imagine they found the fella to be the best fit despite not being a foot taller than everyone. Would've been good if they had made some more comments on it so the non book readers knew that it was a thing, so it wasn't just Loial in episode 5 commenting on it.
Wasn't the dead Aiel in ep 3 also a redhead?

When Mat goes to the body and Thom asks him what he's doing.
Aye, was more because it seemed like Dinuc had an issue with how Rand looked and that he didn't stand out enough I guess? But it seems like they've set him up properly to be the only redheaded "non Aiel", they just haven't been super good at relaying that to the audience that it is something out of the ordinary. But maybe it is too obvious, if they have people commenting on it a couple times every episode. Books are just so much better at stuff like that.

Dinuc
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:53 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Dinuc » Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:58 am

iria wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:30 am
Aye, was more because it seemed like Dinuc had an issue with how Rand looked and that he didn't stand out enough I guess? But it seems like they've set him up properly to be the only redheaded "non Aiel", they just haven't been super good at relaying that to the audience that it is something out of the ordinary. But maybe it is too obvious, if they have people commenting on it a couple times every episode. Books are just so much better at stuff like that.
Not enough of a problem to make a post myself, but enough to join an argument about it...

Other people probably understand the books a lot better than I do. But seems like they could have made the books very accurate in this aspect and they would have had plenty of chances for diversity.

No problem with the WT being a very diverse bunch. It makes sense since they pick up channelers from all over. Also the Tinkers and the CoL and any other ideological group can be very diverse.

But I can't say I disagree with the people complaining that these small towns are way too diverse for what they are supposed to be. Rand was adopted wasn't he? With Rand and Matt and Perrin all looking very different. I think most TV watchers would just put it down to diversity casting.

It does make sense to do that in most cases. Like Harry has black hair, Hermione has brown hair, Ronald has red hair. It helps audience differentiate the characters.

But who knows, maybe show runners wanted to differentiate these three more than they wanted to play up Rand being Aiel... Which is also justifiable.

Tbh I am mostly just curious if it goes to 8 seasons how a lot of nations will be portrayed. Like if Lan being casted as Asian looking was intentional and if that will be followed through.

Don't know how accurate this list is. But imo it would have been cool if the show was accurate to something like this. And they could have changed things on the list if they wanted.

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/3_sour ... tries.html

iria
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by iria » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:08 am

Ah apologies, your post was just the one I noticed regarding Rand and I wasn't sure what the issue with him was, except maybe the lack of setup about the Red hair.

Daniel Greene has a nice video about the diversity with the fella from a dusty wheel, where they've done a lot of research regarding the different ethnicity in Randland, definitely worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr7lDwNU770

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Kordin » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:09 am

Land of Madmen: Australia?
Knew it...
Aiel - somewhat Slavic
Da! Da!
Seanchan - Texas
"Y'all wanna swear some Oaths?!" *spits tobacco chew*


Hmm nothing on Ghealdan, Murandy...

halfhand
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:12 am

Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by halfhand » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:45 am

From the show's map of the costuming design theming: Andor (western, blend of all cultures), AD/Saldaea (Middle East), Tarabon (Persian), Ghealdan (Greece/Persian), Altara (Greece-Mykonos), Illian (Italy), Murandy (Turkish), Cairhien (French/Chinese), Tear (Spanish-Cambodia), Toman Head (Romania/Croatia), Amadicia (Whitecoat land), Borderland (Asia: East - India, West - Japan), Seanchan (chinese)

Drybones
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Re: The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

Post by Drybones » Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:30 am

As far as HP, weren't muggles given mundane names and purebloods given fancy names? I always assumed Cho had a fairly standard name for that reason.

When I read the books, I felt like RJ had pretty solid global diversity but little local diversity. Each nation had its own culture and they had their own set of talented and skilled individuals who were celebrated from country to country. I personally didn't see any issues with the racial divide in RJ's wot if you compare it to a continent like Eurasia where each country is fairly racially homogenous, but overall diverse. The tower seemed to be the area where different countries mingled, and most racial/national hatred was between countries with border disputes. There were several interracial lgbt relationships in the books that weren't really remarked on with any significance. The WOT world's reaction to race seemed pretty tame to me, which I would imagine is the direction we would like our own racial relations to go. I certainly don't agree with the attitude of over-representing minorities in some attempt to make up for past generations misdeeds. That seems like backwards thinking to me.

It's interesting to see that other people have a different take on it. As far as the books existing outside the context of it's own world, it seems like a white boy from South Carolina who went to an all male, largley white, military college in the early years of the internet didn't do that bad of a job :P In that light, ignorance is a good word choice if you are going to throw shade his way, but I'm curious what particular examples from the WOT books you think were offensive.

As far as the show goes, I think they could have kept to the books division and still maintained a diverse cast. As a book reader, I don't really lose anything from them having a diverse TR, b/c I know what's going on already. I really enjoy the casting of the tower; that part feels very WoTish to me. Maybe some people who come to WoT from the show will miss out on that, but it feels pretty minor.

Costuming and dialog seem to be the main issues, and as far as Brandon Sanderson's approval, I never thought dialog was his strongest area :P

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