The Wheel of Time Season 1 Episode 6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[isabel]

@Mronz - I wondered how many people would be bothered by the overt moiraine/siuan scenes but not by the egwene/rand scene early on which is as far as I know even a deviation from the books where they were just promised to each other and not lovers? It's also one of the very few 'out' queer relationships in the books (and only major character one iirc) so I would not grudge this, when there's been and will be episode after episode of het romance.

Definitely better episode than the previous one. The Mat healing + fight scene is a huge favorite and I'm sad that got dropped. The Hall shenanigans was definitely fun to watch though it felt like Siuan got manipulated too easily by Liandrin. But I like that there's enough about shifts of power in the Hall going on. Logain speech was great but then ended abruptly. It's still so many characters getting introduced all the time and suddenly Loial is there as this trustworthy figure but no one knows much about him. Same way Alanna and warders had so much screen time before this but now the warders are totally gone and probably Alanna also. Stil, a great Moiraine-focused episode and I loved some of the moments in this "siuan sanche only waits for one woman, and that's not you" haha!! The moiraine/rand interaction and the moiraine/egwene interaction really reminded me of the books (finally!!).

Also feel like Siuan is a hard character to pull off. Casual but tough, a ruler but also a rebel, in the centre of all kinds of politics but also straightforward. Given all that thought the actor did a great job.

Liandrin continues to be a fun character though I wish we could see her with her accomplices / interacting with other Reds.

The Hall scenes weren't at all how I imagined them but they worked all right. A little theatrical as almost all the Tower scenes have been and felt a bit too reliant on music to carry them. Similarly people would do something supposedly grand but it didn't really carry much weight. Like what was liandrin's penance? Logain and Moiraine judgement looked big but didn't feel all that impactful.

Often shows get better after season 1 though and this wasn't terrible. Lots of nice moments.

[Aira]

**Spoilers**

Liked:
I wonder if Siuan's father missing a hand is a nod to harsh Tairen rule of peasants.
The Stone of Tear on the horizon.
Fishy phrases, although different ones. They've toned down a lot of bookish phrases, probably to not be corny?
Liked the Hall politicking, I think it might introduce non-readers to the impossible position of Siuan, although I suspect her banishing Moiraine may also lead to her downfall. Either because the Hall finds out they been conned, or whether they fundamentally disagree.
Subtle color differences within Ajah color dress. A Blue with a hijab, although I wonder what nation that type of 'dress' is supposed to represent, given how Liandrian (Taraboner) has braids?
Potential introduction of dream ter'angreal through Moiraine's golden painting frame with door.
Egwene foreshadowing possible mental damage to Perrin and/or further *oL shenanigans.
Nynaeve being intimidated by Siuan, even though she tries hard not to be.
Loial being on a draft horse.
The Ways being dark, like so dark you could see the darkness 'shining' on the faces before they entered.

What the heck was Nynaeve saying to Lan as she entered the Hall? I heard it, something about a cave and branches, but don't get why it's there.

Disliked:
Didn't like the Ways requiring channeling to open.
The kiss between Siuan and Moiraine could've been a bit more passionate, but maybe that's just me.

All in all, I think a season 1 introduction of Tower politics was necessary. The books go from adventuring to a 180 turn when they go into politics, so introducing that in the show was absolutely vital. Not in the least to show the potential scope of the entire thing.

[Jestin]

Feel pretty let down again after episode 6 was hyped as Brandon Sanderson's favorite episode.

This post from Reddit really sums up my thoughts on the show so far:

"Game of Thrones: We're gonna copy the books word for word onto the screen and not deviate even slightly, being the best show on television right up until there are no more books to copy and oh firetruck, now our show sucks!

Wheel of Time: Season 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones was great! We don't need to follow the books.. MaYbE tHeRe ArE fIvE dRaGoNs!"

[Aira]

"Game of Thrones: We're gonna copy the books word for word onto the screen and not deviate even slightly, being the best show on television right up until there are no more books to copy and oh firetruck, now our show sucks!

Except that GoT didn't copy the books word for word either. There were some pretty serious deviations there too, with mostly female characters being targeted.

[Mronz]

@Mronz - I wondered how many people would be bothered by the overt moiraine/siuan scenes but not by the egwene/rand scene early on which is as far as I know even a deviation from the books where they were just promised to each other and not lovers? It's also one of the very few 'out' queer relationships in the books (and only major character one iirc) so I would not grudge this, when there's been and will be episode after episode of het romance.

Glad you reminded me of that, hahaha. Wasn't really posting about the shows yet, but, yeah, that annoied me too, again, just felt like we were insta going to sex, to sell something.
But, I guess , that's a pretty big selling point for tv.

[isabel]

Arya Stark was fundamentally different in the show. Sansa was watered down I think. Cersei was simplified. Catelyn was..forgotten?

Book spoilers***

I still don't get why people are mad about five potential dragons. Everything is leading to Rand being the dragon - he even says he saw some black stuff around the healing I think? Like it is so early to decide that anything was actually changed. In the books did people know rhis early that rand was the dragon? Iirc only at the end of book 1 is ir confirmed that rand is the dragon. So season 1 will confirm this when eotw is resolved and end with the great reveal. Egwene is obv headed for Amyrlin (the scene in the hall anticipates this), nynaeve has been flagged as too old, mat will have his dagger storyline and Perrin is the WB. Rand is the only char with nothing else going on.

[isabel]

The kiss between Siuan and Moiraine could've been a bit more passionate, but maybe that's just me.

The secretly swearing fealty to siuan in full view of everyone though (that too after the whole kneel/kneel flip thing - strongly reminded me of a scene from the 100 when the heda person makes Clarke swear fealty in public only to voluntarily swear fealty to her in private basically equalising the relationship) - arguably a romantic high point!

[Aira]

The kiss between Siuan and Moiraine could've been a bit more passionate, but maybe that's just me.

The secretly swearing fealty to siuan in full view of everyone though (that too after the whole kneel/kneel flip thing - strongly reminded me of a scene from the 100 when the heda person makes Clarke swear fealty in public only to voluntarily swear fealty to her in private basically equalising the relationship) - arguably a romantic high point!

The difference about who is 'in charge' in public vs in private is also visible between Lan and Nynaeve at some point.

Also re: GoT. The wife being present at the Red Wedding and slaughtered. Sansa doesn't win over the Vale on her own merit. Sansa being married to Ramsay Bolton and that 'wedding night'. Ros' presence and fate. Meera being almost raped.

Let's put it this way, those who taut GoT as staying true to the books are off the flaming goatkissing rocker and in there, it's the female characters who pay the price.

[Jestin]

I'm not really looking to get into a drawn out debate. But all of your examples are like in seasons 4+? And are relatively minor compared to what has already happened in the first six episodes in the first season of WoT.

I mean the first few seasons of GoT had a ton of dialogue that was like literally lifted from the books.

But I'm comfortable with you not agreeing with me

[halfhand]

Liked:
Tar Valon costuming was great. Classic Moiraine outfit.
Tar Valon politics. Banishment scene was well acted. Good setup for future payoff.
Moiraine playing fast and furious with her manipulation
Acting was top notch (Siuan Sanche, Moiraine, Liandrin)
Outside scenes and vista are always good like the Maule (contrasted to the indoor scenes)

Disliked:
Waygate, Ways. Looked cheap. Took a lot of the uniqueness out of the setting and its just a generic portal into a generic tunnel.
The visual look of the Shadar Logoth exorcism looked too similar to the Taint/Saidin, and will confuse viewers. They should have done distinct looks so that it is more obvious the two evils are different.
Tower still needs more life. More extras. The healing room has some good set dressing, but there needs more background things that shows there is a living world. Yellow Aes Sisters, accepteds, novices running around. Other sick people. etc.

Neutral:
Moiraine/Siuane relationship. I understand why they are playing this up for TV. Can't argue the pillow friend.
Matt staying behind. We'll see if this works or not.


Book spoilers
I understand some of the rationale for the five potential Dragons, but the biggest issue now with the two last episodes is that there is going to be a massive whiplash with Rand being the Dragon, with massive exposition dump, flashbacks in a short of amount of time, and his character development was sacrificed in the first 6 episodes, so a lot of viewers have no vested stakes with Rand. And it's going to seem like an asspull. I understand its use as a hook for viewers, but at the end of season, there's a high liklhioohd it is going to just seem gimmicky.