isabel wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:50 am
Callesa, as a primarily light side player, if I was playing wotmud I would play this alt because I hear you about the damage to LS. It used to be great when someone like verania/fender would be rolling around and equipping up LS, stocking barrels, taking newbies etc along. There was something about the most recent tower smob groups that I just really disliked and I felt like the downing of bond pairs made sense in light of how it was being played.
That said I would advocate some patience with the system because a lot is clearly being changed. I think your post is great feedback and I hope imms are hearing it. But for a long time abs was in a shitty place and combo was op, and now they have downed combo so all these things are clearly on their list. It doesn't help the current playing atmosphere (and if I was playing id be frustrated too) so I just hoppe that players read your post and swap out to their LS big alts and invest in building up LS once again.
Thank you, it is good to hear publicly that some people understand. I really think the LS suffers from not having enough leaders like you describe.
I am trying the patience, doing my part. I could even agree that changes like the abs better and combo worse are logical. But I think there is now a combination of changes, that is rather tiring and discouraging.
The game is currently really set up for the solo stab smob kind of thing. Heralds has been not worth it ever since the changes. I'm hoping the system is changed but meanwhile happy to sling my 4-5 rares storage your way if you want to trade it for gear (not a solution just some temporary pain killer)
Yeah. I greatly respect solo stabbers and try to learn that. But I'd prefer to play with people but don't have the option to get a large group (with several extremely good players) to do for example a herald or other really exciting stuff. No clue why the heralds were destroyed this way. The risk/reward ratio is just laughable.
Thank you for your kind offer, but it's not about the rares, I'd die with them very soon anyways. If you'd consider returning, to have people to play with on LS, that would be the best. But I understand, that you don't feel like it now.
About Lisennet btw had she stayed to be sedai no doubt she would have been secretly black ajah. But there's no point / reward in being sedai with the current system. There's actually zero benefit from even being clanned. I know her through her entire journey and she actually never betrayed people who were trying to smob or did anything even remotely shitty from what I know. She helped a lot of people exactly as she would have had she not been a df. There's maybe a few times that the dfs I know tried to alert/ work with DS but it was vs players who could handle themselves or a genuine error (some newbie being incog an high level).
Unfortunately LS has just seen leader attrition over the years - Dorian Markus verania etc. All gone!
I agree about Lisennet probably being a secred black ajah otherwise, and I definitely don't think the player meant anything ooc evil by their choice. But the harm done to the LS and the Tower is enormous. The distrust, the suspicions, the discouragement. I believe you, that she was not shitty ooc, and i understand how ic her choice is. But the player community damage is done.
What I see around is not a lot of IC action and fight of good vs evil. What I see are discouraged and emotionally hurt players (let's not forget people are much more fragile in the real world right now on a whole population scale), who don't trust each other far too often, and who know that DFs always win. There was recently one stupid enough to be caught while unknown, doing something really stupid and traitorous. Do you think anything happened? No, they went inactive, so they are still clanned. No catharsis, no celebrated win for the LS for once. The LS never wins. I totally get that imms cannot force the player to do something. But if one caught DF actually had the courage to show also their loss to the world and face the IC consequences, it would really raise the moral. Not just IC, but also OOC.
A legitimate question is also whether we should get such a wave of DFs and such a damaged LS now, when we get the newbies inspired by the TV series, who probably want to see and be the heroes.
Reyne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:37 pm
The heralds getting harder, ending in DS zones, and rewarding less made heralding not worth it for me (definitely not on an r7 character), which I was sad about.
It is sad that this seems to be the usual impression now. Even when I ask people for smobbing, the Heralds awake a negative emotion. Not even a "it is hard" reaction, the usual is "it is not worth it at all". Rarely, someone is willing to try, and it usually doesn't end up well, we don't finish because of pk, or we get caught by pk.
Was there even any reason or any improvement by this change? Is someone still doing them and enjoying them more?
Usually, even the harsh changes are done to improve something else. What was improved by this? We don't need more pk, and we don't need to get people to the Blight to stimulate pk anymore, Andor is the new Blight.
Elysia wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:47 pm
Callesa, I think you're hung up on your own misconceptions of darkfriends.
DF system 1: There was no system. Imms awarded if/when they saw something, or gave out quests. Not really tenable, because depending on imms with timezones etc. sucks.
DF system 2: Chosen awarded darkfriends who did things for them. This included ratting out smob groups, starting wars and whatnot. Not really tenable because few Chosen actually bothered with working with darkfriends. It was really easy to miss eachother, which made the process even longer.
DF system 3: A lot more like the Tower aqps system. There were some Chosen endorsements.
DF system 4: The current system. Essentially like the Tower aqps system + a Known Phase. Vampa's idea for unknown darkfriends is that it's a grind, but their actions shouldn't affect other players, e.g. no ratting out etc.. They are more likely to join you for smobbing because they need a certain item, than they are to rat your group out.
I think because the current df system removes the need to be in the right timezone, a lot of people in previously unwieldy timezones have now taken their chance. However, aside from fulfilling maybe an rp thing, there is no real benefit to playing a df the old way.
You're absolutely right that I have some misconceptions of the DFs (and many others with me, from what I hear). But am I really wrong in interpreting the effects of the DF wave on the LS?
I am not sure that even a massive information campaign "DFs are not OOC evil and are not ratting you out all the time" would help at this point. What the LS needs is some more player cohesion, a real global channel just for LS, and some real victory at least over the failed DFs. They are supposed to be a high risk high reward option, but they are the no risk high reward option. We never win, we never get to see a DF char, who has done something stupid enough to be outed, punished as the player just gets inactive and starts something else (perhaps a new df).
Honestly, this is not about whether it is too easy or too hard to be a DF, or how do they really get their altqps. This is about how does the LS perceive them and how does the LS perceive itself.
Wrt the above, a warder/ AS pair will always be stronger than two random other players. They still are stronger. However, if you are going to say things like the above, you will essentially make imms roll their eyes and close the thread. If you have feedback or opinions, don't make something seem like the end of the world, because you will not be taken seriously and that will absolutely affect how other feedback is taken.
Stronger in what sense? With a random player, we can choose from a variety of strategies, including me buffing something for some time. With the warder, the strategies are limited by the autorescue (a supposed huge advantage), while we were taken away the tools to make that path efficient. No WvD for the warder, worse autobash, lower sps etc. I don't see it as the stronger PvE option.
Thank you for not rolling the eyes (or perhaps rolling but responding kindly and thoughtfully anyways). I know the automatic response of some people (perhaps even imms, who knows) is "Callesa just sucks at the game, that is the only problem". But I hear the same opinions from others too, which doesn't really convince anyone, unless they say them publicly too. But some seem already burnt out.
It's not the end of the world, but it is simply sad that so many things I was looking forward or relying on were changed to the worse. I was looking forward to lot of smobbing for qps but the heralds were totally destroyed. I was looking forward to duo smobbing with a warder (the perfect solution to my timezone group finding problem), like what I've seen so many people do over the years, and it is no longer it. And other already discussed things added to that.
I was really looking forward to this, and it is no longer fun. It's not the end of the world but I am just very disappointed that yet again, I don't get to enjoy what many people before me had.