Why are absolutely any chances of enjoying PvE being destroyed?

[Reyne]

After coffee and more thinking; in any case I'm going to try to be more proactive about organizing/leading groups around vs hoping something is already happening. If people who play around evenings on PST want to hit SS and DS cities more regularly (in addition to other PvE) lemme know and we'll get it going. I'll have a lot more time after finals this week (taking a break next quarter also).

[Masaj]

Here's a thought: why not just re-implement Heralds and specifically exclude Tower, Dragonsworn, and any other clan that has channelers with clanned weaves from awards on this type of stuff? We have a tendency to provide blanket solutions to specific problems.

The issue is always that if you make it easier for normal characters, you make it that much easier for the AS/Warder that are going to power farm. If you want to chill on LS and do Heralds and get rewards, maybe it should be a reward for contributing to the diversity of the game rather than exclusively for being on the best characters to power farm TPs/QPs on.

+1 - Could even maybe also base chance for award on how many *different* clans are represented. So, for example, if you're doing a smob in Illian and you have a Companion with you and you have members of three other clans in tow, it increases your odds.

Heralds were already done 95% by Tower groups even in their old form, so that wouldn't change a thing.

???

That describes the problem with them. I assume that was the case because heralding gave same reward to anyone and Tower chars are the path of least resistance in terms of difficulty of doing them. I'm saying if you exclude them from a version of re-upped awards (or even make it even NOT reward with Tower people around), you might see people hopping on other alts to do them.

[Elysia]

I meant more the complaints like "only Tower groups do them now". It used to already be mostly Tower, so no real difference between old and new heralds.

[isabel]

Drybones, byrg - there was some frustration in the op sure, but quite clearly callesa is invested in a civil discussion and clarifies multiple times that it is not some 'bad people' thing but the experience of the people who are at the other end of it. Not sure why we need to nitpick on that. Also who said discussion is bad?

You don't have to change your playstyle but you do have to deal with the consequences of your playstyle. In this case the consequence is depleted light side to a point where pk and pve whave been replaced with one-sided pve that postures as pk.

@elysia - heralds was easier with tower groups but upper rewards would definitely foster ls leadership for people willing to learn to lead/spam to the smobs. That's a big part of learning the game and people gain confidence with leading groups. Gating around teaches the group not much in that respect. I think making it non-tower or at least non-gate - I'm sure if the tower just issues a directive that tower can participate provided they don't use gate (can dress up the rp) then people like callesa can do heralds and people will self police because they won't want heralds downed again.

[zankou]

Speaking of Callesa, it was very refreshing to see her out and about up north yesterday learning some pk. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Probably want to ask someone better than me though:P But if i can help i will.

[Elysia]

I'm sure if the tower just issues a directive that tower can participate provided they don't use gate (can dress up the rp) then people like callesa can do heralds and people will self police because they won't want heralds downed again.

I'm actually 100% confident that such a thing would be ignored, because I've seen it myself with other things.

[Kordin]

people will self police

.....in this place?!

[Shinobi]

It’s the whole Timmy, Johnny, Spike archetypes from Magic.

Some people are in it for the PvP domination and carnage - they spend all of their time in the (????)

Some are in it for the leveling up, world building, and getting lost in the game - strikes, quests are more their jam. (a Timmy).

And some love both, the mix of strategy and domination, the creativity of the buildouts. It’s the process that they love, so they don’t mind grinding to get that perfect gear that will give them the edge - (????). (a Johnny)


Is this relevant and helpful?

Thoughts + prayers.

[isabel]

Oh you cynics :p we self police so much stuff. We self police same side scalping for instance. I can't imagine that five clanned people on the already thin LS would risk heralds being downed by Gating despite clear imm instructions not to. Tower members are held up to RP standards! They don't wear DL cloaks for instance. Sitters can dole out penances if need be if anyone does try to break this.

I am 100% sure that the people who want heralds to stay in place would report the rule breakers because we all want this to happen. Even DS and SS would want it over people gating around since it means more ground movement.

Can just say that we must be wary of seanchan channelers learning this precious weave so don't use it lightly (aka don't gate for heralds )..only use for life and death.

[Tandrael]

Lots of very interesting takes here from a very wide variety of perspectives. It really makes me appreciate how vast the game is even with a small player base. I think what really sums up the issues that Callesa is having is not having a "healthy" LS during their play time. I don't think there's anything that can be done to make the 6-12 stat bots during that time become lvl 30+ people who will help pve. I do think the number of active known dfs will lessen eventually, but it is painful right now to do pve with a nearly constant threat of your small group being loced/ratted/ravened. This was always a possibility before, of course, but you used to have a much greater chance of getting backup from the rest of LS (not an option now during non-peak hours). Also, the average pve group was usually bigger and better than 3-4 people.

As an example, when I was last most active back in summer 2019, heralds were a big thing that I hit nearly every other day during the same off-peak times (8-11 am server time). Alison or Edard would often lead a group of 4-5 with a mob or two and we would hit one to three herald chains and many other smobs along the way. Sometimes our group would get hit by ds, basin was certainly a thing then, but we were often strong enough to repel the attack. Nevaeh was also a very active known df at the time, and is one of the best pkers I know of, but once again our group was often strong enough to beat them, or discourage them from making the effort to even hit us. That's just not possible now with the state of LS during this specific play time.

A who list of 12-18 with 1-2 ss, 1-2 known dfs, 6-10 statters, and 3-6 level 30+ "real" LS is not healthy. That's 3-6 people who may not want to pk against dfs, ss, or ds, but if they want to do anything, they face a constant threat of it with little to no chance of winning. Should there be something done about that? I honestly have no answer to that, but I will say I share much of Callesa's frustrations with feeling like there's nothing I can do during that time besides get on my solo stabber or my mc and just hope to stay under the radar. But that's just one more LS that's not really a part of LS anymore.