Make all clanning requirements accessible

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Foil
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Foil » Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:54 pm

One of my issues with discussions like this one. A lot of valid points were raised, a pretty nice discussion was had. It will eventually peter out and nothing will come of it. When a discussion such at this one reaches the end of it's life cycle it would be nice to know if it had any impact in decision making or if we just get on the forums and argue point counter point as a meta game to the mud.

Detritus
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:22 am

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Detritus » Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:58 pm

If you don't play at the same time as active people it's horrendous to try and clan anything without completely out of mud stuff.

I play from New Zealand and my evenings are quietest time of mud in general, i mostly have play at work or inconvenient times to see clanned people much so often dont bother.

Being clanned is a massive incentive for activity as well, people will peter out activity when they're not progressing character at all.

Automated seanchan clan was great(and a nice chain), wish more clans had a similar mobol.

Foil
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Foil » Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:52 am

To put the icing on the cake for me it has been requested that all discussion of hidden clan bonuses be stopped on discord or anywhere else officially.

Quite upsetting to me with this level censorship. The reasoning behind the censorship is that players in the hidden clans are unable to discuss bonuses publicly and because of this they are also unable to discuss the malus associated with them. That is a logic I can wholeheartedly agree with. I would never want to be in a discussion where one party feels that they cannot engage in a healthy debate because they are held back by rules set forth from their respective clans.

This is even more reason why the player base should make a hard push to have every clan known, with clear clanning requirements, paths to clanning, and bonuses associated with clanning. This push will be met with a lot of pushback. Most of your active staff currently play characters in the vast majority of these hidden clans in one form or another. I have no intentions of revealing their alts so don't bother asking me.

All of the bonuses associated with these hidden clans do have in game effects and because they have in game effects it should be common knowledge. Instead we have ended up in a situation where very few players, generally your more advanced and experienced ones, find themselves in hidden clans with bonuses that enhance their chances of winning even more. Why do we allow this "win more" scenario to be created? Are there some hidden clan members that maybe aren't top tier pk'rs, sure, but the vast majority are skilled, experienced, and knowledgeable players who then go on to reap the best benefits one can get in the game.

We constantly use fade bonuses for every argument in balance. Well fades can do this, fades can do that. Yet when we want to talk about balancing WB we aren't allowed to talk about specifically what they can do? This seems a bit backwards. Hidden clans impact the player experience, they impact the overall state of PK. They should be on the discussion table for the player base at anytime. If the argument is we can't because they can't when it comes to talking about them. that has to be fixed. anytime we do start discussion something like how to balance WB's better it's the same old song and dance, Oh well that's not how we work, we have maluses too, you don't know how it works. Well when I finally say exactly how it works publicly it becomes a problem.



Make all clans known, make all clanning requirements accessible. You can still limit your inductees, you can still keep your bonuses, but everything should be above board for people to discuss as they want and to request balance where it needs to be or staff intervention on clanning if necessary.

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Kordin » Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:05 am

Foil wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:54 pm
When a discussion such at this one reaches the end of it's life cycle it would be nice to know if it had any impact in decision making or if we just get on the forums and argue point counter point as a meta game to the mud.
Foil wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:52 am
To put the icing on the cake for me it has been requested that all discussion of hidden clan bonuses be stopped on discord or anywhere else officially.
Think you got your answer.

Dolens
Posts: 213
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Dolens » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:11 am

I agree 100% with all posts ever made on any thread on any forum.

With all the bonuses that fades have, why can't we have engaged stabtimers? Hell, why can't we even TALK about engaged stabtimers? I think that's the real question Foil is getting at. It's time we finally got an answer so we can put this to rest once and for all.

But lol of course the answer won't suit me. I knew this beforehand, giving me the perfect reason to engage a passive aggressive rant. Nothing over the top as I can't really scare people away nor can I give my true intentions away, but something subtle so that you could barely make it out for one. Maybe by the end I can even rally some support and become a Voice of the People.

Don't get me wrong I respect the answer I was given. I also agree wholeheartedly with the logic behind the answer I was given, but I will still go on under guise of censorship. This word will surely set off an internal trigger, I got them now. I'll touch on some vague aspects to draw in the completely oblivious ones. I'll then spice it up with some real terms and random stuff the average pleb can relate to, but it's very important to keep it as superficial/vague as possible. Must give them nothing they can readily reject until it's too late. Lastly, I'll boil it to perfection: borderline conspiracy. This will surely appeal to the senses, but also to the masses. After all, who doesn't like a good ol' conspiracy? Have to be careful not to over-do it, so fine I'll use the term 'Clangate' later. But no dish is perfect without appealing to emotion, so I'll be sure to touch on that too. Nothing too strong, just an emotion that most can relate with. Perfect.

But now I gotta sell this to the people, and make sure they don't think I'm in it for myself: keep in mind, I don't care about secret clans, but I do care about you. All of this is just for you. If I could wink into the camera I would, but alas this is text.

Lovely. Just delicious.

Now comes the hardest part: not to get high on my own supply.

---

Et voila, with this simple recipe even you can become a Voice of the People.

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Kordin » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:29 am

Dolens wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:11 am
I agree 100% with all posts ever made on any thread on any forum.

With all the bonuses that fades have, why can't we have engaged stabtimers? Hell, why can't we even TALK about engaged stabtimers? I think that's the real question Foil is getting at. It's time we finally got an answer so we can put this to rest once and for all.

But lol of course the answer won't suit me. I knew this beforehand, giving me the perfect reason to engage a passive aggressive rant. Nothing over the top as I can't really scare people away nor can I give my true intentions away, but something subtle so that you could barely make it out for one. Maybe by the end I can even rally some support and become a Voice of the People.

Don't get me wrong I respect the answer I was given. I also agree wholeheartedly with the logic behind the answer I was given, but I will still go on under guise of censorship. This word will surely set off an internal trigger, I got them now. I'll touch on some vague aspects to draw in the completely oblivious ones. I'll then spice it up with some real terms and random stuff the average pleb can relate to, but it's very important to keep it as superficial/vague as possible. Must give them nothing they can readily reject until it's too late. Lastly, I'll boil it to perfection: borderline conspiracy. This will surely appeal to the senses, but also to the masses. After all, who doesn't like a good ol' conspiracy? Have to be careful not to over-do it, so fine I'll use the term 'Clangate' later. But no dish is perfect without appealing to emotion, so I'll be sure to touch on that too. Nothing too strong, just an emotion that most can relate with. Perfect.

But now I gotta sell this to the people, and make sure they don't think I'm in it for myself: keep in mind, I don't care about secret clans, but I do care about you. All of this is just for you. If I could wink into the camera I would, but alas this is text.

Lovely. Just delicious.

Now comes the hardest part: not to get high on my own supply.

---

Et voila, with this simple recipe even you can become a Voice of the People.
"to engage a passive aggressive rant"

And this is what, and contributes to this how?

Itesh
Posts: 828
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:59 am

Re: Make all clanning requirements accessible

Post by Itesh » Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:58 am

Clans of the garden variety are free to decide their own clanning procedures. If they wish to publish their requirements, they are free to do so. If they wish to have automated clanning, we will generally emplace infrastructure to enable this. Unless we have a substantial reason to step in, this is largely their own business.

No, it is not okay to discuss the features of secret clans in public and out game discussion spaces; leave some mystery alive for those yet to discover it.

No, not all the Staff have alts in secret clans, but also, that is neither your business or your concern. You either trust staff to act for the general good of the game, in which case the placement of alts is irrelevant, or you do not - in which case it doesn't matter in any case because you will always act with the assumption of bad faith.

Locked