The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

[Detritus]

Starting monologue is terrible, as is laindrin/logain thrown in randomly at start.
If the wanted a monologue they should have started with the aiel war and gitara on dragon's rebirth, or kareathon cycle.
"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"
—Gitara Moroso, Foretelling Rand al'Thor's birth

Perrin murdering a wife murders the character (screen writers obviously realised he was terrible character later in books so had to make him wreck him from the start)

Mat being loathsome character from start of books ruins his character progression.

Major fight scene has zero progression. Stand in one place, kill a few randoms, wait, rinse and repeat 20 times.

Also disliked thom being a really useless gleeman and another thief, even bard in witcher is better.

Didn't like the giant douchebag rings, or whitecloaks collecting them.

It's like the went out of there way to make none of the characters likeable, wierd pauses and emphasis on strange parts of false character development.

Lovely scenery and shadar logath.

[nass]

Seems to me the challenge of the series is to translate books of huge multilevel somewhat excessive detail and gradually smouldering complexity into a TV series that actually works as a sequential watchable TV series. As someone who has known the WoT world since, like, *forever*, I'd say pretty good job. They chucked money at it and it shows, changed and omitted bits here and there to make it flow better. It's probably a cardinal sin to say this but I found the book hard to read and follow myself, this series makes it far easier

But you can tell they're aware of the complexity problem because of all the explainers round the series, stuff like the artifacts, creatures etc explainers (I wonder if they used our Codex?!) at https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B09F59DZ2Z/

Also, the actors they have, they've done well. Rand and Egwene seem particularly good, same for Moiraine, Matt, Lan, the Gleeman dude. I also like the little details you can spot when you know the WoT world like we do. Whether it's enough to be the new GoT, time will tell, I have to kinda doubt it myself with a new Amazon LOTR series scheduled next year but I'd love to be wrong

[Aira]

Her channel "disassemble Lego Winespring Inn" was excessive.

It did remind me of a small snippet in the books though, where it said that throwing something at someone took less effort than pulling an object from thin air. E.g. fireball.

Also, there might have been foreshadowing for Earth. We saw Fire and Water, and arguably Air with the things thrown about.

[halfhand]

Too bad for anyone that may have been taking shelter in the largest, most defensible building in the square during the attack. Oops.

[Kryyg]

The problem I have with giving them credit with trying to adapt a “complex” story is that….book one is so far from complex. It’s literally a carbon copy of so many fantasy series starts. Simple village boy/girl meet super powerful allied magic folk to leave home and journey to kill all evil.

What are they going to do when he tries to unite the nations or win over the aiel with their customs etc.

The other issue I have with the forced diversity of emonds field is how can we now tell the difference between aiel, illianers, tairen Andorran etc. they were all described differently in terms of shades of skin eyes hair accents. It’s like everyone is already united.

[Katherine]

Ok about the "Aes Sedai ring". There is no such thing. This is a major mistake that readers, viewers, and almost anyone else makes when talking about the Great Serpent Ring.

The GSR is given to Accepted, not Aes Sedai. Its a mark of a woman's bond to the Tower, not that she is an Aes Sedai. The farther away from Tar Valon one goes, the less that distinction exists so that for most of the world (not including the Borderlands) an Accepted is just a small step below an Aes Sedai while near Tar Valon the Accepted is just a small step above a novice. Even Morgase wears the great serpent ring, although she never even became an Accepted. The ring is just a sign of the bond with the Tower, and its not a symbol of an Ajah to which a woman belongs. The symbol of an Aes Sedai is not her ring, but rather her shawl (and less formally the effects of the Oaths on her appearance).

The ring in the show is colored to the Aes Sedai's Ajah. How can that be if the ring was given to her when she just passed the trial to become an Accepted? What color is Morgase's ring? Accepted?

This leads me to suspect that there will be two kinds of rings. The non-Aes Sedai ring and the rings worn by Accepted and Morgase.

This Mud has the same issue. There is only one kind of great serpent ring, not two. Maybe its something that can be addressed for book accuracy at some point in the future.

[Kryyg]

Ok about the "Aes Sedai ring". There is no such thing. This is a major mistake that readers, viewers, and almost anyone else makes when talking about the Great Serpent Ring.

The GSR is given to Accepted, not Aes Sedai. Its a mark of a woman's bond to the Tower, not that she is an Aes Sedai. The farther away from Tar Valon one goes, the less that distinction exists so that for most of the world (not including the Borderlands) an Accepted is just a small step below an Aes Sedai while near Tar Valon the Accepted is just a small step above a novice. Even Morgase wears the great serpent ring, although she never even became an Accepted. The ring is just a sign of the bond with the Tower, and its not a symbol of an Ajah to which a woman belongs. The symbol of an Aes Sedai is not her ring, but rather her shawl (and less formally the effects of the Oaths on her appearance).

The ring in the show is colored to the Aes Sedai's Ajah. How can that be if the ring was given to her when she just passed the trial to become an Accepted? What color is Morgase's ring? Accepted?

This leads me to suspect that there will be two kinds of rings. The non-Aes Sedai ring and the rings worn by Accepted and Morgase.

This Mud has the same issue. There is only one kind of great serpent ring, not two. Maybe its something that can be addressed for book accuracy at some point in the future.

Lol. They gave Perrin a wife he killed in 10 minutes. I don’t think their target demographic is fans who pay attention to the ring details. I believe their target demographic is 6 year olds to 10 year olds.

[Zilla]

Ok about the "Aes Sedai ring". There is no such thing. This is a major mistake that readers, viewers, and almost anyone else makes when talking about the Great Serpent Ring.

The GSR is given to Accepted, not Aes Sedai. Its a mark of a woman's bond to the Tower, not that she is an Aes Sedai. The farther away from Tar Valon one goes, the less that distinction exists so that for most of the world (not including the Borderlands) an Accepted is just a small step below an Aes Sedai while near Tar Valon the Accepted is just a small step above a novice. Even Morgase wears the great serpent ring, although she never even became an Accepted. The ring is just a sign of the bond with the Tower, and its not a symbol of an Ajah to which a woman belongs. The symbol of an Aes Sedai is not her ring, but rather her shawl (and less formally the effects of the Oaths on her appearance).

The ring in the show is colored to the Aes Sedai's Ajah. How can that be if the ring was given to her when she just passed the trial to become an Accepted? What color is Morgase's ring? Accepted?

This leads me to suspect that there will be two kinds of rings. The non-Aes Sedai ring and the rings worn by Accepted and Morgase.

This Mud has the same issue. There is only one kind of great serpent ring, not two. Maybe its something that can be addressed for book accuracy at some point in the future.

I hadn't realized this. Thanks for the tidbit!

[Katherine]

Lol. They gave Perrin a wife he killed in 10 minutes. I don’t think their target demographic is fans who pay attention to the ring details. I believe their target demographic is 6 year olds to 10 year olds.

They gave the dead Aiel a dog trinket made of stone (stone dog). Even if they introduced the Aiel badly, there's something for fans in that little detail, but yea, I guess only fans of the books would be bothered by the ring or Perrin's story. No part for master Luhhan. Very sad, but maybe he will make an appearance later.

Speaking of details, I was a little put off by Moiraine's explanation of the fall of Manetheren though that was offset by the fact that I was happy she even explained any lore. Manetheren was betrayed by the White Tower, and specifically Tetsuane, who was Amyrlin Seat at the time. She somehow intervened when Manetheren had called for aid from its allies, preventing help from arriving which led to Manetheren's destruction at the hands of trollocs. Its said that Tetsuane, who was raised from the Red Ajah, did so out of personal jealousy for Queen Eldrene. This eventually led to Tetsuane being deposed, stilled, and replaced by an Amyrlin Seat raised from the Blue Ajah, beginning or at least deepening the animosity between the Red and Blue Ajahs.

Aridhol was not involved in the betrayal at all. It was discovered "dead" by a delegation sent by Aemon well before the trollocs attacked Manetheren. So for whatever reason the screenwriters are changing RJ's lore to bolster Aridhol's inherent darkness/evil nature. That's a shame. Aridhol is an important part of the EoTW story, but sort of a minor plot arc throughout the rest of the series. On the other hand, the Red Ajah abusing Tower authority for their own ends is a recurs several times since the Breaking usually at key moments in history, and that Ajah has always been a symbol to me (as a reader) of how the Aes Sedai women were unbalanced due to there being no Aes Sedai men. The borrowed yin-yang symbol of the Aes Sedai represents (in our world) duality and balance, another crucial theme throughout the books. In that way, the Aes Sedai women in the books are deeply affected by the taint on Saidin as much as the men are, just differently. Changing the lore regarding the fate of Manetheren takes away some of that thematic depth, in my mind, unnecessarily. Especially since the CoL have already been introduced and its events like Manetheren and Hawkwing that really provide context as to why the distrust of Aes Sedai that fuels the CoL existance.

[Kordin]

Lol. They gave Perrin a wife he killed in 10 minutes. I don’t think their target demographic is fans who pay attention to the ring details. I believe their target demographic is 6 year olds to 10 year olds.

They gave the dead Aiel a dog trinket made of stone (stone dog). Even if they introduced the Aiel badly, there's something for fans in that little detail, but yea, I guess only fans of the books would be bothered by the ring or Perrin's story. No part for master Luhhan. Very sad, but maybe he will make an appearance later.

They showed "around 300" trollocs led by Fades, marching straight for EF while everyone was still in EF. To the vast majority of people (I assume) watching, who haven't read the books, that sloppy way of storytelling suggests that horde of trollocs will just roll through EF and nothing will be left. So no Luhan.

I can't imagine anyone not being confused and put off by the show when they later return to EF.

Unless for some reason they decide it's way better for the story to have EF wiped off the map completely.

They give the Aiel that trinket, but completely remove Moiraine giving everyone a gold GPS coin....the choices are just...

Speaking of details, I was a little put off by Moiraine's explanation of the fall of Manetheren though that was offset by the fact that I was happy she even explained any lore. Manetheren was betrayed by the White Tower, and specifically Tetsuane, who was Amyrlin Seat at the time. She somehow intervened when Manetheren had called for aid from its allies, preventing help from arriving which led to Manetheren's destruction at the hands of trollocs. Its said that Tetsuane, who was raised from the Red Ajah, did so out of personal jealousy for Queen Eldrene. This eventually led to Tetsuane being deposed, stilled, and replaced by an Amyrlin Seat raised from the Blue Ajah, beginning or at least deepening the animosity between the Red and Blue Ajahs.

Aridhol was not involved in the betrayal at all. It was discovered "dead" by a delegation sent by Aemon well before the trollocs attacked Manetheren. So for whatever reason the screenwriters are changing RJ's lore to bolster Aridhol's inherent darkness/evil nature. That's a shame. Aridhol is an important part of the EoTW story, but sort of a minor plot arc throughout the rest of the series. On the other hand, the Red Ajah abusing Tower authority for their own ends is a recurs several times since the Breaking usually at key moments in history, and that Ajah has always been a symbol to me (as a reader) of how the Aes Sedai women were unbalanced due to there being no Aes Sedai men. The borrowed yin-yang symbol of the Aes Sedai represents (in our world) duality and balance, another crucial theme throughout the books. In that way, the Aes Sedai women in the books are deeply affected by the taint on Saidin as much as the men are, just differently. Changing the lore regarding the fate of Manetheren takes away some of that thematic depth, in my mind, unnecessarily. Especially since the CoL have already been introduced and its events like Manetheren and Hawkwing that really provide context as to why the distrust of Aes Sedai that fuels the CoL exists.

It's details like this that completely change the core of WoT, the foundations upon the entire story is built upon. It's a WoT theme, but it's definitely not RJs WoT.

I don't know why RJs estate was ok with this. I get that Sanderson doesn't have that much say in it all, but you'd think someone from RJs team would be like "you're sh****ng on everything he built".