The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

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halfhand
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The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by halfhand » Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:09 pm

Set in an epic fantasy world, The Wheel of Time follows Moiraine (Rosamund Pike), a member of the incredibly powerful all-female organization called the Aes Sedai, as she arrives in the small town of Two Rivers. There, she embarks on a dangerous, world-spanning journey with five young villagers, one of whom is prophesied to be the Dragon Reborn... the one who will either save or destroy humanity.

Episode 1: Leavetaking (bonus short: Breaking of the World)
Episode 2: Shadow's Waiting (bonus short: Fall of Manetheren)
Episode 3: A Place of Safety (bonus short: The Greatest Warder)

Release Time(episode 1-3 together):
Global Release: Friday November 19 12 AM GMT / Thursday November 18 7 PM EST

Spoiler Warnings:
Anything Episode 1-3 is free game
Spoiler mark anything Episode 4 and further
Spoiler mark anything book-related that takes place in the future (There will likely be a group of people whose only exposure is TV and not books).


Previews:
Official Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZozKfRqvA
Officail Teaser Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fus4Xb_TLg
Preview: Winespring Inn Clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIMkfP4JsxU

The After Show
Episode 1 Ft Marcus Rutherford): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFvponAPJ6M


Reviews:
EW.com. C+. "weak characterization...rather watchable...setting is so captivating that it leaves you wishing the characters had received the same amount of attention." https://ew.com/tv/tv-reviews/amazon-the-wheel-of-time/
NYTimes. "Provocative premise...feels fast-paced and static at same time...does have time to develop...but lacks a voice...breathtakingly detailed edifice with no people in it." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/18/arts ... -time.html
Washington post. "Game of Thrones was not a perfect show. The Wheel of TIme makes it looks like a masterpiece" https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-ent ... me-review/
IGN. "The Wheel of Time is gorgeous, well acted, and strongly written, a show that understands the characters and plot of Robert Jordan’s books without being slavishly loyal to the source material". https://www.ign.com/articles/the-wheel- ... pisode-1-3
Gizmodo. "It works, but if you’re already familiar with the books, it can sometimes feel a little like you’re watching Wheel of Time 101." https://gizmodo.com/the-wheel-of-time-t ... 1848063392
Rotten Tomatoes: 63%. "The Wheel of Time's revolutions can be a bit creaky as it tries to stand out from other fantasy series, but it succeeds admirably in making Robert Jordan's epic approachable for the uninitiated"
Last edited by halfhand on Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

halfhand
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by halfhand » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:03 pm

Episode 1:
Great:
Acting for the most part is great. Minor characters such as Tam were well done.
Battle sequence in Two Rivers well done, including Moiraine's use of One Power, the heron marked sword, and the chaotic nature. (although ? Moiraine just tanking a dagger to the chest?)
Trollocs and CGI well done for the most part.
Beautiful Scenery and filmography were will done

Not great:
Hate hate the new Aes Sedai ring. Ugly and completely over-designed.
Adding Layla Aybara to fridge her
Pacing was a big issue. I get the need to rush through things fast, but sometimes it feels like whiplash moving from slow and fast.
Needed a much bigger starting explosive/visual hook. I get the Red Ajah chase for exposition but it was underwhelming and not enough for the slow burn of the beginning. Needed something to make us care about the "Dragon" besides just dialogue exposition.

Overall it met my expectations, but needed a much much stronger Introduction. Needed to hit the ground running and it did not really nail the start, but the end made up for it.


Episode 2:
Great:
Better pacing
CoL introduction is great. Still not a fan of the new costuming. (Valda not a great Questioner if he can't see the untanned line on her ring finger)
Shayol Logoth is great, the scenework is pretty well in general (one of the things that seem to be very book detail oriented)
A little more humor in the dialogue

Not great:
Not much issues here. Show seems to hiting its stride better.
Moiraine is really skirting the Three Oaths with Mr Hightower... lot more ruthless than her book counterpart
Still not a big fan of the Color-coding Ajah. Also, Yellows are the Hufflepuffs of the WT.


Episode 3:
Some breathing room for some developed.
Tinkers costuming are decent. Don't mind that they're muted a little more.
Pseudo-Baerlon is fine.
Introduction for Thom works. Still would have like to see the Gleeman cloak though. Losing a lot of small things that may WoT a little more unique.

Overall, I think it does a good job of translating to screen. I wish it hit a little harder initially in Episode 1, as a lot of TV prestige shows rely on the first 15 minutes. Most of the changes I can live with, and some work better. I will give it a 8/10. Looking forward to Episode 4.

elodie
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by elodie » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:04 am

I agree with much of your assessment, however I actually liked the Layla Aybara addition. It makes Perrins cautious nature understandable to a viewer. I think without something like it he would just seem dopey. I agree it started a bit slow, but I loved it when the two rivers people all mauled that trolloc.

I liked what they did with the Whitecloaks, they are actually making them a danger to the Aes Sedai, when in the books they were really noted as more of an annoyance. The questioner having 7 Aes Sedai rings really made me hate him and fear him at the same time.

One part that i specifically remember driving me crazy was when Lan said he was from the Borderlands and then Moiraine called trollocs monsters acting like she had no idea. Clearly any borderlander would know.

Raya
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by Raya » Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:27 am

Someone said the Aes Sedai - Warder bath was weird. I actually loved it - a very apt intimacy in this 'tweaked' mutually emphatic warder bond. I replied, 'Would you rather see Lan, Rand, Perrin, Mat AND THOM completely naked in a bath together, because that really happened in Book 1.' Robert Jordan sucked (big time) at intimacy, and it's good to see people touch each other, and have some intimacies not necessarily sexual.

What I do hate is... the direction? Or rather, the misses in. It's telling that the first two episodes are not as mindblowing, when it's the same director for just those two. There's a few moments when I catch the camera jerking as if the camera man tripped on a stone, they should have caught and edited that. The one where Moiraine talks to Nynaeve in the cave. Also Rosamund, everything's great as expected from her, especially after she called that lightning... Oh my God that bitchy 'heh, thought so.' look.

However, it's her height that bothered me. At first I thought it was ok, and it helped her to be imposing.... but it also made her clunky, the round pads made her look like she was crouching, and the direction did not help at all. She should have stayed minimally active while channeling, and not bend her back like some acrobat. Great if she had a dance background/ choreographer, but it seems the director just let her be and made us look at the tall woman whipping her long limbs around. But yes, channeling, and all the sounds it made is all very good.

Other than that, I loved all the little changes, felt like a makeover, or a new Age in the timeline. Loved the soundtrack, the songs, the cinematography. Perfect casting and stellar acting too. Barney Harris is so good, I'm getting too attached to his face and I know it's just going to break my heart.

Added:
- Beautiful, breathtakingly wide landscapes. Makes you want to live there, and we've only seen Andor.
- Japanese big drums in your soundtrack make it EPIC. Singing odes so softly in a capella, also epic.

isabel
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by isabel » Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:42 am

Overall loved it. Maybe the clips being bad had lowered expectations, but it landed really well for me. Highlight was probably that lantern scene in episode one and the tam/rand conversation was such a compelling intro into the world of wot.

I didn't mind the pacing really because the world oevrall felt very immersive so it didn't matter that basically scene after scene Perrin and egwene are crossing the screen doing not much else.

Some of the action lacked a bit of motivation I thought. Like Mat just randomly walking around a scary creepy city at night. Also stuff like rand/egwene having a lovers tiff in the midst of such devastating felt unrealistic (though in itself it was cute).

I was worried about moiraine but I thought she was splendid. Agree that episode one could have used a bigger hook. The red sedai chase was good but we're so spoilt and expect at least 5 similarly exciting scenes!

A lot of elements are being introduced quickly though. Like I don't think aiel came in the books for quite some time. I wish they spent more time on the relationships between the main characters. Like egwene and mat have a lot of scenes in the books but here I don't thik they interact even once. Nynaeve only really had scenes with egwene, whereas we could have had some scenes to show why how she's fiercely protective of all of them. Perrin and egwene had some really nice scenes together.

That braid flip was kind of funny in a hi-robert-jordan way.

Overall though I thought they did an amazing job with the screenplay. Not perfect but a lot of promising stuff and a lot of potential screwups avoided.

Oh and villains. I personally dislike evil characters like trollocs and fades because they have zero personality or variation so I'm hoping they give us someone to hate that has something substantial going for them.

Agree about the Acapella singing and overall music and sound was really good. Honestly would love to see more singing (was hoping mat / rand would join thom) - it's one place where the film can outshine the books.

Wotmud influence was funny. When nynaeve was fighting the troll in my head it was like one troll vs an fc..big deal! Also the group being a WB an MC a bonded pair etc..was funny.

halfhand
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by halfhand » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:33 am

Some of the plot holes can be justified by wotmud mechanics.

"Rumors of 4 Ta'verens in the Two Rivers" (complete nonsense) - the old Ta/Rea/Sei sense

8-foot monster sneaking into a public square, stabbing a man, and pausing for dramatic affect - bloody trolloc rogues (and post-backstab lag)

Moiraine tanking a definitely lethal wound to her chest - AS Bond drain, Lan didn't even wince

"can be boy, girl, anywhere, anyone". Moiraine wasn't paying attention to the quest mob, lost all the text in her buffer, couldn't figure out how to trigger the quest giver again, and saying f it, I'm brute forcing this.

killingl laila (not a plot hole) - Berserk! Death! Death! Fight to the death!

Zilla
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by Zilla » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:18 am

I'm going to rewatch these episodes this weekend. I think I was just too tired to appreciate what they were going for when I watched last night. I'm sure I missed a lot of little things that they did to give the characters some depth (I HOPE!). My opinion of them ended up being incredibly negative and overly critical. I truly hope it changes with the rewatch, but here's my gut reaction..

The Good
- The world looks fantastic. From the Two Rivers to Shadar Logoth, it was just great.
- The shadowspawn. This was a big concern for me before the trailer, because I felt like it would be very easy to screw it up and end up with something stupid. The attack on the village and the way they just snatched people and ran off in the middle of the battle, them swarming through the woods with torches, etc was just spot on.
- Channeling. Again, I was worried about whether or not this could be pulled off on screen. I was happy with how they did it.
- The cast. They aren't perfectly cast to match the story exactly, but I think their selections work well. I can't think of any that stood out in a "there's no way this person can work as X" type of way.

The Bad
- I think that this is more a trend for shows/movies in general, but I didn't like how polished everyone and everything was. It gave it a sort of Disneyland vibe. The quality of the buildings in the Two Rivers, the people's clothing, and how clean they were really just seemed too modern to me.
- I didn't like the bit with Moiraine taking the dagger to the chest right near her heart. It just gets pulled out and they continue on like nothing happened. I would have preferred they skipped the dagger and just done more to emphasize just how taxing it was for her to do all that channeling, and how utterly exhausted it left her. Only to have Rand show up and start demanding that she heal Tam. Would've been a good way of introducing angreal and also showing that channeling has its limits. Instead it just gives the impression that she is slightly hurt by the dagger and not exhausted because she did a lot with the One Power to save their village.
- Lan's swordplay felt disappointing, but I don't know exactly what I was expecting. Maybe I did not pay enough attention to it and will appreciate it more on a second watch through.
- Everything felt really rushed. There were a lot of events that were jammed in and while I knew they were significant in my head, they did not feel significant with how they were done.
- So far I feel that they've done a poor job developing the characters or their relationships with each other. Some of their attempts at doing this seemed very cheap/lazy. One example being Rand/Egwene having sex right there in the Winespring Inn. Yeah it showed us they have some kind of relationship, but it didn't come off as particularly meaningful and their interactions in general don't really give the impression that they care a whole lot for each other. Another being Perrin having a wife and killing her. Its a fine tool for replacing the inner dialogue that can't really be done on screen, to explain future behavior, but I could've done without it. I'd prefer they used the time to give us a glimpse of the bond he has with the Luhans and the strong love he has for the people of the Two Rivers.
- They did so well with the world and casting, but the rushed nature of things and lack of character development I mentioned above really wastes it.

Dinuc
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by Dinuc » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:04 am

halfhand wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:33 am
Some of the plot holes can be justified by wotmud mechanics.
Perrin asking for create food or water from the channie.

Not that it is a plot hole, but it is the thing that made me think of the mud the most lol.

Ashlee
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by Ashlee » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:40 am

I really, really loved it.

There were so many small details that I think only book fans notice (or on re-watch), like the corpses of the sheep in the shape of the dragon's fang.


Episode 1:
Things I liked:
I thought the acting for the EF5 especially was spot on. Acting for the most part is great. Minor characters such as Tam were well done.

Battle sequence for Winter's Night was amazing. The way that Lan and Moraine work together is just stunning. It does such a good job showing how the bond looks.

Tam was great. You could see that he was a rusty Blademaster, but still had that muscle memory.

Nynaeve being dragged off unceremoniously.

Things I did not like:
Agree with Halfhand that the new Aes Sedai ring sucks. How can they possibly hide themselves with that monstrosity?
Adding Layla Aybara. Just makes no sense to me. The same could have been accomplished keeping Master Luhan and having us see Perrin struggle with all the death.

The cold open was bad. No getting around it. It was exciting as a fan who has been waiting to see the show, but pacing was a big issue. t.

They speak a tough too quickly with their accents. We aren't given a chance to sit in things and be introduced to the setting.

It was so quick for them to leave EF. Seems like there was more there that was left on the cutting room floor.


Episode 2:
Things I liked:
Was really nice to sit with the characters a little bit more. I LOVE the CoL and actually like the new costumes. Gives a bit more umph to the whole keep their cloaks pristine thing.

I liked Shadar Logoth, but it seemed so utterly short for such an important location.

That last moment was perfect! Go Nynaeve.

Things I didn't like:
Pacing is still off to me. We are jumping over things so fast to get to something (I am assuming to Logain), but it feels much too rushed to me. There is a lot of traveling and walking that can be cut out...why cut out the important bits like Shadar Logoth.


Episode 3:
Things I liked:
Loved Thom introduction and the psuedo-Baerlon/that other city where the DF attacks Matt and Rand. Thought it was really well done.
Liked how they made Thom's cloak subtle, but still had the colored patches.

Things I did not like:
Would have preferred to sit with Perrin and Egwene rather than jumping. Their scenes were so short that it felt abrupt to jump back to Matt and Rand.


Overall, I am very happy. We knew it would not be perfect, but I think they are doing a wonderful job. And we already know they renewed for Seasons 2 & 3, so the issues and errors can be ironed out. I think the rest of this season will sit better; I think they did a ton of world building that got dumped in the first 3 episodes. Hopefully, the rest sits well.

Nevirha
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Re: The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

Post by Nevirha » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:17 pm

Ashlee wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:40 am
Things I liked:
Was really nice to sit with the characters a little bit more. I LOVE the CoL and actually like the new costumes. Gives a bit more umph to the whole keep their cloaks pristine thing.
I also really liked the Whitecloak costumes. They were reminiscent of priest robes to me, but divided for traveling on horseback, so it made sense.

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