The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

[raal]

I think the main thing that irked me really wrong is the Whitecloak fella telling Moiraine to seek out an Aes Sedai to heal her. I feel like there are some fundamental truths from the series they shouldn't deviate from.

I actually liked this a ton because it gave the opportunity to have a lot more nuance between the Hand of Light and the questionners. I think toward the end of the books when you have CoL leadership making adjustments to their philosophy in order to collaborate with the Light then you have a lot more opportunities for CoL mindsets to come into contact with channelers and interact.

I hope, and give them the benefit of the doubt, that they're trying to clearly nuance a darker and sinister portion of the HoL (how we have always seen them) with the CoL. I think we'll get a bit, but that contrast on first engagement created more nuance for the *oL after the Eamon burning scene which, while they may walk it back and cliche the *oL as only torch wavers, gave more nuance to the *oL then they get in the books for a long time .

Also, that COL clearly recognized trollocs and didn't think they were a myth (which isn't true of all COL IIRC)...seemed risky saying it in front of the HOL though...but as a former COL that fought up north a lot I liked this bit as well...

[Aira]

the only thing that really bothers me about this and almost all fantasy shows/movies, is that the chars all seem to have european accents. americans are nerds too geesh.

It's actually refreshing, because prior to the whole streaming uptick, essentially everything was American and/or Canadians, which to Europeans is a small difference.

The guy who plays Rand picked an accent, as he's Dutch. Highschools here don't care which accent you use and many use American because it's so prevalent in media.

[Mhaliah]

Just watched Ep1:

Strong "last season of GoT" vibes

Wouldn't be surprised if they completely go "off script" and turn Rand into a Warder, one of the girls will be the Dragon, Matt will end up as an MC and Perrin will be a mad Wolfbro hermit ridden with guilt for killing his blacksmith wife....

All in all, I had low expectations but the first episode lowered them even more...an honest description would be that the show is "inspired by WoT series" instead of "based on WoT" series.

I was getting GoT vibes from the overt physical sexual content (not nearly as much as GoT but way more than the books, this seemed to be a GoT influence for sure), grimdark "realism", gore, and other shock value choices.

Things I liked:
Was really nice to sit with the characters a little bit more. I LOVE the CoL and actually like the new costumes. Gives a bit more umph to the whole keep their cloaks pristine thing.

I also really liked the Whitecloak costumes. They were reminiscent of priest robes to me, but divided for traveling on horseback, so it made sense.

I didn't like them cause they did not have a clear distinction between the HoL and CoL. And when that CoL caption suggest Moiraine get healing from a Sedai right in front of a HoL questioner I was slack jawed fool. That questioner would have had him arrested, tried and burned on the spot! But I see this as making the transition from early book to late book CoL attitudes condensed in the series.

So far most of the changes I am on the fence about cause I can see how they are using the changes to condense character development (i.e. Perrin killing someone he loves in the heat of battle makes his internal struggle through Winter's Heart much more dramatic).

Things I really hate, but probably wont change anything in the long run...

How one line in the opening scene from the Red sister makes it seem like Men and Women access the same part of the one power and that the men "dirty" it.

The he or she for who the Dragon can be.

Those gaudy as F class rings...

Sedai making huge gestures to channel.

I am watching it with a WoT DnD friend who has never read the books. And at the end of the 3rd episode I told her I cant really answer any questions about what is going to happen cause so much crucial stuff changed...

the only thing that really bothers me about this and almost all fantasy shows/movies, is that the chars all seem to have european accents. americans are nerds too geesh.

Maybe they're saving American accent for Andor...
"Hooooeeey, gosh darn it, y'all look like ya traveled from sumbitch far away, dang....y'all came to see the Queen?! Bless your pea-pickin' little hearts!"

I certainly hope so!

Not to stir up the RE, but they have been in Andor the whole time. *mic drop*

[Katherine]

Sedai making huge gestures to channel.

I think this is book accurate. Aes Sedai often need devices, whether hand gestures or jewels, to focus their weaves. The Wise Ones often made fun of Aes Sedai for their dependence on these crutch devices.

I do notice a dumbing down of the One Power from the books to the screen. There was no distinction between saidin and saidar in the first three episodes and the Reds in episode one stated that (paraphrasing because I forget the exact words) men were not worthy of using "their power" which belonged to women alone. Of course, a Red might say that about the One Power as a whole, but certainly women cannot lay any claim on saidin even figuratively. So for now, the audience is being led to believe by the show that there is a single "source" and that only women can use it without going mad. Dumbed down, but easy to follow I guess. I don't like it and I am hoping as we get further into the story we get a better explanation of saidar/saidin and the taint.

I do like how they made it kind of obvious that the power is elemental by showing threads coming from fireplaces, rivers, air, etc. I like that they said it without saying it. We could've sat through Moiraine explaining it for 5 minutes with Egwene, but seeing it was better in my opinion.

There's sooooo much story ahead of us, so I'm hoping there's ample opportunity to get into some details later when they are crucial.

*potential book spoiler* I wonder if Season 1 will be 100% EoTW. Obviously we wont be watching this show for 14 seasons, one for each book, and the books get thicker, slower paced, and really plot-branchy until we get to The Gathering Storm. Makes me wonder if the Seanchan, Shado Aiel plot, or a lot of the scenes and subplots involving with the Forsaken will be cut out entirely. Whatever they cut, its going to hurt for us book fans!

[halfhand]

I got my SO to watch through episode 1-3. She is a non-reader, not into fantasy ganre. Casual stream watchers, so usually does something while watching netflix/amazon.

She was a little bored at the start of episode 1, and got more interested near the end. She said she was a little intrigued but little confused too. She found the exposition sometimes a little hard to follow because it is too fast especially with the accents, and some scenes were a little dark to follow. Overall, she liked it, and would to watch the rest as they came out. But, she probably would not have finished episode 1 if she was just watching it by herself. She thought the Dragon was probably Egwene because she could channel, but it could also be the "guy that doesn't want to do anything" (Mat) because he's least obvious. She didn't really understand what the Dragon thing was, just the general sense that of them was supposed to be it. Also, she thought after the Manetheren story, that maybe the Trollocs were the resurrected souls of Manetheren. The Fade was discount Voldemorte.


I think this is probably going to be reflected in a lot of the casual viewers. I expect that there will probably be a dropoff from Episode 1 to 2, but people who stay on from 2 will likely keep watching. It is not going to be a GoT successs, and may trend around Witcher (maybe little less since Netflix is more popular than Amazone Prime). It will probably not get the full 8 Seasons (at its current costs), but I am guessing 3 (4 max) unless it reaches cultural zeitgeist status which is probably less likely based on current reception (but we will have to see what the numbers come back at).

[Ashlee]

It is not going to be a GoT successs, and may trend around Witcher (maybe little less since Netflix is more popular than Amazone Prime).

I keep seeing this comparison (hard not to compare them, honestly). But my memory of GOT was that when it first launched, it was not well received by the broader community. I came to the show late (the third season was about to release), but I was not hearing my friends talk about watching GOT like it was the big new show that everyone had to watch until much later in the show's run. Hell, the first episode of GOT was a bit of mess; I think it just had wonderful cliffhangers.

[Ashlee]

The ring in the show is colored to the Aes Sedai's Ajah. How can that be if the ring was given to her when she just passed the trial to become an Accepted? What color is Morgase's ring? Accepted?

This leads me to suspect that there will be two kinds of rings. The non-Aes Sedai ring and the rings worn by Accepted and Morgase.

I believe the show runner recently confirmed that the Aes Sedai rings have the gemstones, but Accepted rings or rings for important women who trained in the Tower (like Morgase) are the same rings. just without the gemstones. I can't remember where I read that.

[Ashlee]

*potential book spoiler* I wonder if Season 1 will be 100% EoTW. Obviously we wont be watching this show for 14 seasons, one for each book, and the books get thicker, slower paced, and really plot-branchy until we get to The Gathering Storm. Makes me wonder if the Seanchan, Shado Aiel plot, or a lot of the scenes and subplots involving with the Forsaken will be cut out entirely. Whatever they cut, its going to hurt for us book fans!

Season 1 is a combination of the first 3 books. The conventional wisdom among those reading the tea leaves is that they are skipping Caemlyn and instead stopping through Tar Valon, then heading to Shienar. The final episode is called The Eye of the World, so presumably there is something there. But an earlier episode is also Blood Calls Blood, which makes it confusing what they are doing timeline-wise.

It is also come out (from Sanderson no less) that the show runner pushed for -- and was initially given -- a 10 episode season and a 2-hour premiere. I think some of the choppiness from the pilot likely stemmed from having to adjust to losing 3 hours in the first season. Not a great excuse, because the product is still there. But it makes me feel a little better.

[halfhand]

It is not going to be a GoT successs, and may trend around Witcher (maybe little less since Netflix is more popular than Amazone Prime).

I keep seeing this comparison (hard not to compare them, honestly). But my memory of GOT was that when it first launched, it was not well received by the broader community. I came to the show late (the third season was about to release), but I was not hearing my friends talk about watching GOT like it was the big new show that everyone had to watch until much later in the show's run. Hell, the first episode of GOT was a bit of mess; I think it just had wonderful cliffhangers.

GOT came out a different time and space, with much less competitors, and was able to hit a lot of going points at a perfect time on a prestige cable channel.
WOT is completing in a much more crowded mindshare space, where the streaming platforms are churning through hundreds of new shows for lottery tickets. Things that make it big, make it big fast (aka Squidgame, Stranger Things, Mandorlian, and to a lesser degree Witcher, the Boys, etc). Everything else gets cancelled, and it is lucky that WoT is essentially guaranteed 3 seasons.
I used GOT as a simple comparison as a tier of popularity. It is also used as the benchmark Jeff Bezos is using for funding this expensive TV series, which means that its continued funding will be tied to a goal of achieving similar popularity.

At the end of the day, WoT will track closer to Witcher in the genre, especially based on data available, which is successful enough but not at a level to guarantee 8 seasons, especially with a higher cost/episode.

Fantasy Debut Prerelase Aggregate Demand (https://observer.com/2021/11/amazon-whe ... apple-hbo/)
1.13x higher than demand for Netflix’s The Witcher (which is the foundation for a burgeoning Netflix franchise)
2.16x higher than demand for Netflix’s Shadow and Bone (which was renewed for a second season)
5.56x higher than demand for Apple TV+’s See (which is currently filming a third season)
7.76x higher than demand for HBO’s His Dark Materials (which has been renewed for a third and final season)

[Ashlee]

It is not going to be a GoT successs, and may trend around Witcher (maybe little less since Netflix is more popular than Amazone Prime).

I keep seeing this comparison (hard not to compare them, honestly). But my memory of GOT was that when it first launched, it was not well received by the broader community. I came to the show late (the third season was about to release), but I was not hearing my friends talk about watching GOT like it was the big new show that everyone had to watch until much later in the show's run. Hell, the first episode of GOT was a bit of mess; I think it just had wonderful cliffhangers.

GOT came out a different time and space, with much less competitors, and was able to hit a lot of going points at a perfect time on a prestige cable channel.
WOT is completing in a much more crowded mindshare space, where the streaming platforms are churning through hundreds of new shows for lottery tickets. Things that make it big, make it big fast (aka Squidgame, Stranger Things, Mandorlian, and to a lesser degree Witcher, the Boys, etc). Everything else gets cancelled, and it is lucky that WoT is essentially guaranteed 3 seasons.
I used GOT as a simple comparison as a tier of popularity. It is also used as the benchmark Jeff Bezos is using for funding this expensive TV series, which means that its continued funding will be tied to a goal of achieving similar popularity.

At the end of the day, WoT will track closer to Witcher in the genre, especially based on data available, which is successful enough but not at a level to guarantee 8 seasons, especially with a higher cost/episode.

Fantasy Debut Prerelase Aggregate Demand (https://observer.com/2021/11/amazon-whe ... apple-hbo/)
1.13x higher than demand for Netflix’s The Witcher (which is the foundation for a burgeoning Netflix franchise)
2.16x higher than demand for Netflix’s Shadow and Bone (which was renewed for a second season)
5.56x higher than demand for Apple TV+’s See (which is currently filming a third season)
7.76x higher than demand for HBO’s His Dark Materials (which has been renewed for a third and final season)

This makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining!