DEFENCE

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Zeeb
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:42 pm

DEFENCE

Post by Zeeb » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:26 pm

I'm really hoping we can revisit giramael's fireworks and doors so that some cities and fades can be defendable without being deathtraps. With the current playerbase and numbers certain group sizes just force the smaller size to cower instead of trying to defend.

Maze fades, Maeltor, KK...

Maradon queen, tanchico, Berelain, etc.

I think last time BIG G tried to still let the doors work, I think on these doors you should be able to set off fireworks and just completely stop the door from opening/closing until the next reboot.

erulak
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:11 pm

Re: DEFENCE

Post by erulak » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:33 pm

+1 -- with the new changes to TP awards, I would seriously consider at least removing the doors on the maze fades (been awhile since I've been in that part of maze, so don't remember offhand, but one is hedge) at least until we get through the predictable process of people spamming heads for TPs again and having to down rewards because we can't have anything nice without people squeezing the blood out of stone.

Because trying to defend those against groups is just asking to die. It really just encourages pinging people on Discord or some such if you can't even reasonably *try* to defend because you're putting yourself in doors on top of already trying to fight bigger numbers in a relatively chokey area.

Would also correspond well to the door removals in the Panarch's Palace in Tanchico because (assuming you even made it in time), you were putting yourself in the middle of a door fiesta trying to defend against larger groups with the advantage of coordination.

Razhak
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:43 am

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Razhak » Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:56 pm

All DS clanheads/cityheads other then DL-J and Ishamael (revamped Moridin) are basically deathtraps for DS to defend, unless suddenly alot of DS log on within a minute time (because most LS groups that just do the rounds for the clan/cityheads up north leave as soon as the ticker on DS being online passes zero :P ).

Also a few pet peeves:
1) DS clanheads/cityheads only narrate once they drop down to batt/beaten, which means smart groups kill the minions first, leave the leader to last, and when it finally narrates, its a full LS group vs 1 leader mob inside a door. Basically making it impossible for the 1-2 DS that are on normally to defend without them just being "dessert". LS cityheads/kings/queens however narrate as soon as they are hit (except Panarch, which is oddly more akin to a DS clanhead in how hard she is)

2) All DS clanheads/cityheads are behind spammable doors, or have adjacent spammable doors (Blarg). It makes it as mentioned above kind of pointless to defend unless you suddenly have overwhelming numbers.

3) As anyone who has hit LS kings/cityheads/queens can attest, the quality and number of mobs for LS cityheads/kings/queens is in the majority vastly higher then those accompanying DS cityheads/clanheads. Alot of LS cityheads/kings/queens also spawn new patties when you hit them (Agelmar, Tenobia, Berelain, Morgase, Cairhien King and BE king do), I am not sure about others like Illian (which has a channeling mob though) and about Amador and Tear. Panarch actually is as hard as a regular DS maze fade roughly in my experience. The ratio behind them having more/better mobs and spawning more mobs (entire patties in most cases!) has always been that they shouldnt be easy to farm for DSers who wanted to master/clan/remort etc. Oddly, the same is now kind of the matter with LSers who daily farm DS clanheads/cityheads...

4) Not a single DS city comes close to LS cities in regards to defensiveness for a LSer vs a DS group attacking it. As a solo LSer in Caemlyn, Fal Dara, Cairhien, Mayene, Tear, BE, Amador, Maradon and TV, I would gladly take on an attacking DS group, knowing that callmob, gatedefences, locking gates (which in some cities are even unpickable still!) will split up, decimate and confuse DS groups. Some cities like Mayene and Illian are even one-exit cities where 1-2 LS can basically shut in an entire DS group without much difficulty. This means for LSers who cannot defend the cityheads/queen/king itself, can atleast have a good shot at avenging it. For most DSers this is very much less so, unless a DL/DG in GK decided to sit at an opportune location, but then still: as DS cities lack callmob, a dedicated LS group can just flee off/regroup in one of the nomobs.

Now, I am not asking for completely levelling the playing field, but as the side with the lowest numbers, facing full groups of LS who are tps farming during low hours, the disparity is glaring at the moment (and has been for ages now). Especially with the new tps thing going into effect, I predict alot of shoddyness in DS' future in regards to LS groups farming for that phat tps :P

Aureus
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Aureus » Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:38 pm

This was a good suggestion:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14830

Dimmu
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:38 am

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Dimmu » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:16 am

Aureus wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:38 pm
This was a good suggestion:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14830
The lack of doors is not the problem, as just literally evidenced by a certain character(class) once again steam rolling a few DS cityheads. Back to the drawing board maybe?

narrate its a warder problem, not a door problem . . . .i thought that would of been clearly obvious

Reck narrates 'exactly, warder with fc's. Draz just solo's cityhead'

Aureus
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Aureus » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:30 am

Dimmu wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:16 am
Aureus wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:38 pm
This was a good suggestion:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14830
The lack of doors is not the problem, as just literally evidenced by a certain character(class) once again steam rolling a few DS cityheads. Back to the drawing board maybe?

narrate its a warder problem, not a door problem . . . .i thought that would of been clearly obvious

Reck narrates 'exactly, warder with fc's. Draz just solo's cityhead'
Yup, I was online. I also saw you guys throw your hands up after the first mob narrate and refuse to even attempt to defend the mobs, instead renting. Nothing wrong with that, but I'll be honest that it does make it hard to take your feedback seriously if you aren't even going to try the changes out before declaring defeat.

Giramael
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:50 am

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Giramael » Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:25 am

Selfish side comment, how many people have messed with the fireworks/doors thing over the past year and did anyone get burnt to death or at least seared nicely? 😅

Dimmu
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:38 am

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Dimmu » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Yup, I was online. I also saw you guys throw your hands up after the first mob narrate and refuse to even attempt to defend the mobs, instead renting. Nothing wrong with that, but I'll be honest that it does make it hard to take your feedback seriously if you aren't even going to try the changes out before declaring defeat.
The outcome would of been, with almost certainty, extremely bad for DS. Beyond the fact it's easy to know exactly how many DS are on, Draz can zone sense, so sneaking in is pointless to. The odds were stacked so badly against us, renting was the obvious solution. Only the most suicidal trolloc would of even tried (I'm talking to you Faendar!). As I said earlier, it's not the doors that are the issue, it's the specific type of character and what it can do vs many mobs. A few token DS'ers won't alter that in any meaningful way.

Kitiara
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Kitiara » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:48 pm

While I typically do not chime in for balance debates... I will comment that I have been apart of these Warder led groups... and there have been times where 3-4 DS did enough that our 7-8ish sized group could not complete any of the city heads.

That being said, as time went on more DS logged... so maybe the DS in these situations knew backup was coming?

Just to say its not impossible even with Gaidin and FCs.

Rig
Posts: 2226
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: DEFENCE

Post by Rig » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:49 pm

Lots of counters to warders. Draz buffing you and patty? Kick. Draz rolling bashes? Disengage bash him, he'll take way more damage than you will. Easy solutions, yet only complaints here because everyone just wants to change mood berserk k xxx bash

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