Game Balance to Encourage Wholist Balance

[Elysia]

There used to be a famous NWIH list. It was basically anything fun.

NWIH is what isn't going to happen even in a perfect world.

The rest in terms of new commands/ skills, regen changes, everything that affects pk, actual useful bonuses, changes to weaves, all coding. I actually think we made a list once, but people don't read those kinds of things.

[Elysia]

Hahaa! Found it:

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=10258&p=85111&hilit=weaves#p85111

[Thore]

FWIW, here was last night's LS wholist. No one would give me DS's wholist for comparision (I wasn't trying to cheat). I broke it up into categories that I think are relevant, we were facing 4-5 DS PKers? (All DSers should be PKers I suppose.)

9 STATTER/LEVELLER
Charity of Murandy
Azik of Andor (Linkless) (Idle)
Kao of Arafel
Svek of Murandy
Ghavin of Seandar WANTED
Konsteon of Shienar
Sevatar of Seandar
Jakles of Arafel
Ayanami of Arafel

4 TOWER/FC
Eldrenia the Tower Accepted, a Yellow Apprentice [White Tower]
Mer a'Narmian [Green Ajah]
Alaren Vadere the Tower Accepted [White Tower]
Lady Alison San [White Ajah Sitter] (Idle)

2 WARDER/GAIDIN
3 Lord Draz the Gaidin Master [Gaidin Blademaster]
Lord Ominas Crowe [Gaidin Council]

2 SS
Kaizunshi Elamari {Morat'raken Applicant} [Ever Victorious Army] WANTED
Cazor the Recruit [Ever Victorious Army] WANTED

2 PKer
Lord Ibzon al'Ron [Saldaean Cavalry Blademaster Council]
Gybon the Knight Bachelier [Saldaean Cavalry]

[Eol]

I'm not sure where to post this, so I'm just throwing this here. At some point in time in the distant past a mob existed that could accomplish this ie. a "taxidermist".

I've had for a long time now the feeling that I think people are bringing up in threads - the feeling that I can sign on, play for hours, and never advance or have anything to show for it. In fact, often the longer I play, the crazier the battle - the more people die - the less you get. I can't tell you how many times my wife has come out to me and said - "when are you coming to bed" and I'm like ... I've been waiting for a split for hours now. Unfortunately often, only to find out - its all already gone. People just took stuff along the way. Or, how can you ask for something - the battle is still going. How many times do you participate in a small numbers PK with only 1 head to split and think - god I hope I get the head this time - I haven't gotten a scalp in a week even though I've been involved in multiple kills a night.

Allow PK scalps to be divided in a 1:1 ratio to their value ie. a head can be split into 7 bits or fragments or whatever. Place mobs that do it in the field, in cities, in keeps etc. We had this in the past (maybe we still do?) but it was punitive. A 7 qps head or whatever was only worth 5 qps divided.

I derive no comfort from the idea that - oh, you'll get a head next time. It hasn't served me well at all. I'd much rather have a shot at daily small gains. Yes, there are good days but often PK is feast or famine. If 3 people kill 2 people I'd rather everyone got 2/3rds of a head.

Allowing splitting of scalps:

-Allows small rewards for all when there are never enough scalps to go around.

-Reduces "Item Split Inequality" - a term I just made up. Item inequality is what happens in a split where an item in question is of greater value than the value of the other items and a fair division can't happen. ie. when the split consists of a rare + some other trash. 1 person is getting more reward than others. The same thing happens when there's only 1 scalp - someone gets 7 and everyone else gets 0. Splitting the scalps allows the reward to be spread across more people and balances the reward. Which would you rather split - gold or a diversity of items and scalps? The more complicated the items the harder it is to satisfy people. "Splitting" a scalp turns scalps into gold - you can simply divide it across the group.

-Perhaps, maybe, who knows - reduces the "need to steal" - the feeling you are always getting ripped off so you need to take 1 now to balance out those other days where you got nothing. I'm not claiming people won't steal. I'm trying to create an environment where people are incentivized to share. Where people fret less about there zero days knowing they have a shot of a piece of any kill they were in on.

-Creates an environment where scalp thieves actually deserve to be punished - where their selfishness can truly be exposed for what it is. How many times do you confront someone who ran off with all the scalps/the only scalp and they have some excuse. I thought no one wanted it. I really needed it. Everyone needed it. Everyone always wanted a piece of it. No you probably didn't do more than the whole group.

-Solves the old "make it right" problem that used to happen on darkside. Back in the day, I knew a master on darkside who would try to make it right for people when we lost/didn't have enough rewards to go around. They'd award a few qps after the fact for participating in the battle. Ultimately that was struck down/disallowed. With something like this - if there's any reward at all - everyone can get a small piece. You don't have to create rewards for people.

-Alleviates that feeling that masters can't take a scalp because they need to rank everyone up. The reward can be divided.

[Davor]

I like the scalp splitting idea. I don’t like taking scalps when there is someone in need. However, If I took 1 qp for every kill, I could have been rank 8 across every alt. Yes. I kill that many. And yes. I am kind of a big deal.

That’s my selfish reason but Eols experiences
Are common and it’s usually some random turd who is holding gear then afks out or some turd who’s caps and just drops out during extended PK that ends up taking it, probably not always intentional. I do try to split good stuff right away to whoever can use but that’s frowned upon. I’m still of the though and general practice that if I lead. I decide the split.

[Weir]

Tracking split apart PK scalps seems like absolute hell, but I like the idea in concept.

[Rig]

I like the scalp splitting idea. I don’t like taking scalps when there is someone in need. However, If I took 1 qp for every kill, I could have been rank 8 across every alt. Yes. I kill that many. And yes. I am kind of a big deal.

That’s my selfish reason but Eols experiences
Are common and it’s usually some random turd who is holding gear then afks out or some turd who’s caps and just drops out during extended PK that ends up taking it, probably not always intentional. I do try to split good stuff right away to whoever can use but that’s frowned upon. I’m still of the though and general practice that if I lead. I decide the split.

1. You’re bad. You’re lucky that Jestin fed you to rank 7 on most alts.

2. I kill more people than you.

3. Agree that splitting scalps would be pretty neat. Seems easy to do honestly.

4. I split the same way. If you want to split it your way then you can lead.

[Elysia]

Tracking split apart PK scalps seems like absolute hell, but I like the idea in concept.

It's worse than you think it is, actually. The chunks would be retools, so once reverted after boot or rent, it wouldn't list a name, nor race. E.g. it would just be a Shadowspawn chunk and not a Myrddraal or Dreadlord chunk. I'm not sure if there are still clans who get bonuses for remorts, but that'd be useful to them.

Either way, even for tracking purposes people would have to turn it in before renting/ crash. Obviously I would be able to make the mobol take base item chunks as well, but that would mean it would be entirely untraceable, so you could master off your own trolloc alt and that would be a temptation some would be unable to resist.

I assume this is why the taxidermist scalp splitting was removed, because otherwise, removing it would fly in the face of all reason. A slow, 1 qp crawl is far more preferable to the hit and miss of pking all week and getting maybe 1 or 2 scalps, depending on circumstances. Also fun, someone being close to master and being given all the scalps and that same courtesy not being extended to you when you're 50 away from master...

[Detritus]

Feast or famine does go both ways.
There's a bazzillion masters and not a heap bothering to work towards rank8, some people pk with bunch of masters and get fed qps constantly they did little to earn.

Famine is noticable in seanchan where it's the opposite with few masters active.

Chunking scalps is horrible pain in the ass and was horrible when could do.
An option would be to reduce qps value of scalps at tactician but make it reward 1qp to people in room (or just scalp to a different mob to reward everyone in room 1/2qp and no one gets extra). I know it's theoretically possible in some way as some smobs can award to everyone in room.

[Eol]

Tracking split apart PK scalps seems like absolute hell, but I like the idea in concept.

It's worse than you think it is, actually. The chunks would be retools, so once reverted after boot or rent, it wouldn't list a name, nor race. E.g. it would just be a Shadowspawn chunk and not a Myrddraal or Dreadlord chunk. I'm not sure if there are still clans who get bonuses for remorts, but that'd be useful to them.

Either way, even for tracking purposes people would have to turn it in before renting/ crash. Obviously I would be able to make the mobol take base item chunks as well, but that would mean it would be entirely untraceable, so you could master off your own trolloc alt and that would be a temptation some would be unable to resist.

I assume this is why the taxidermist scalp splitting was removed, because otherwise, removing it would fly in the face of all reason. A slow, 1 qp crawl is far more preferable to the hit and miss of pking all week and getting maybe 1 or 2 scalps, depending on circumstances. Also fun, someone being close to master and being given all the scalps and that same courtesy not being extended to you when you're 50 away from master...

Best idea I had

Historic Failed Ideas!

(1) My original idea was - rogues disproportionately steal scalps because they can scalp faster than others. He who holds the scalp is most likely to keep the scalp. Let all weapons scalp (coding). Not actually better but at least more equitable/free for all. Eileen threatened to throw me into the ways.

(2) Then I thought - coding - when a group kills someone immediately allow questpoints to be divided amongst the group with something overly complicated ie. 1 per member and if the distribution is less than the value of their trophy allow a scalp. So complicated as to not worth being even considered and coding.

(3) Then I thought - coding - allow a body to be scalped the number of times in line with their qps value. Ie. a person who is a head is "scalp corpse" x 7 producing 7 fragments. Again coding. Overly complicated. Annoying. Or ...scalp once and it generates 3/5/7 fragments in your inventory. Never going to happen.

Here are my assuredly flawed "solutions" to your feedback

(1) Have only 1 turn in spot. Only allow 1 "wiped" piece ie. base item turn in a day. Consistent turning in of the base item would be a source of suspicion since there really isn't a reason it should be happening day after day.

(2) Or. Do not accept the base wiped item at all. Make clear to people that once the split starts they need to turn in prior to crash/reboot etc. Ie. have a room with the taxidermist + the accepting mob. Have the taxidermist even give a warning and the ability to drop.

Obviously this is much less "friendly" than being able to split in the midst of PK and take things with you, but it still accomplishes most of the idea.

People can still gift scalps, help people finish it off. I've seen plenty of true "only 50 left" and plenty of dirty, dirty liars who are "almost there" at 400, but I'm just trying to create a different path. Nothing is stopping people from doing what they've already done.

The flaw of the original chunking was it ate questpoints. You didn't get 1:1, you got less. It would generate the same number of questpoints the current system does. It just allows equitable distribution.

Anyway, ain't gonna happen.