Discussion: How to bring back old players

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Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Sanguine » Sun May 23, 2021 6:28 pm

Rodger wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 3:49 pm
My hope would be to get some more 'end game' type of bonuses on lightside. Ideally for any clan except the current handful of bonused clans, I think this is good for pk and good for getting people back into the game. There are some people who are already rank 8 - but the majority don't usually pursue it, if there was something (similar to fade) at the end you would see a lot more experienced players giving a lot of time to Lightstide and pk tends to be better when LS have more numbers (opinion).
Honestly I'm not sure bonuses are the answer man. Plenty of people have been at this game and playing and loving it for 21 years and have had endgame characters for ages. If anything, end game bonuses need to be reduced so that the newbies can have more fun and make the game more accessible to them, not the oldbies. I believe staff is already doing this to be honest.

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Sanguine » Sun May 23, 2021 6:29 pm

Bryan wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:09 pm
Playing time was a big part of it for me. Life just got busy and I didn’t have the time to keep up.

Also having a good group of people who I enjoy playing with has kept me here on various alts. Discord has helped a lot.
Finding things that are worthwhile to do with less play time would be one area I think that could be improved upon. That's why I used to like to solo smob, because I didn't have the time to PK. At least that was one of the reasons I did it, the other was because I didn't like the players that were PKing at the time. I think the current crop is a lot better for the most part!

Rache
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 6:24 pm

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Rache » Sun May 23, 2021 6:35 pm

So i have never been one to post much on any charter i have played but as I am one of these returning players who has just been gone for 15 years ill share my thoughts. I left at the birth of my daughter no time for mudding and was doing a reread of WOT and found an old scrap of paper i had used as a book mark that had char names and stats on it.I instantly wondered if the game was still around and headed back to see. I was only able to recover one clanned alts and rerolled him into a char i didn't really want to play due to not understanding changes in the game at the time but in many ways i found the mud to be in way better shape than when i left with friendly people every where and some of the old mud troubles way removed and I have been having a great time. I wanted to try some something I had never done before so I started stating and rolled out a good fc and went to work leveling and getting ready to start working on tower stuff but i struggle super bad with female rp as I am a man in real life some people probably don't but i do. My mind quickly turned from playing an fc to playing a Gaidin! I have never been a great pker and with so many changes including zones and some stuff i have forgot im having to learn alot and it will be a very long road but i have a mission that is driving me. I say all that so that where my ideas come from have a frame of reference.

1. this game EATS new people. if charters started off with a flag of true newbie just like a title or something people that know what they are doing could turn it off at the start and that would allow the super ton of cool helpful people that are here to know who actually needs help with commands etc...

2. most of us have face book and i know the mud has a page but with the hype that the tv show is getting i think now would be a great to use it to bring in players old and new. i don't think it would be a reach at all for the fb page to have post that say clan xxxx now looking for new recruits and different events the seanchan games that were held a week or two ago would have been great for that. I think that most of us have fb friends who have mudded or at the very least are in to the same kind of stuff we are and would check it out off of a few fb shares and i know we have the talent as far as fan art to make it look good.

3. I love the 3x and 5x exp but i rember that years ago an imm would speak and say there are x number of people on if you all go vote on top mud site that will make us number 3 and ill turn on double exp. i think that could be used in many different ways if we get 10 shares on this fb post or 40 votes on mud site mob raid on what ever city or crazy exp.

I feel like i have rambled and did not mean to. i have a couple other cool ideas but this is already to long.

Saif
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:53 am

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Saif » Sun May 23, 2021 6:52 pm

Could be an idea to make a "newbie clan" where they can rank up etc. So they get a taste of how clans work. Something akin to when you first log on you get asked if you are a completely new player, if yes they get autoclanned into the "Adventurer" clan. After they stat, they can do simple things such as bring elk scalps/ancient tree scalps for a couple qps etc. Design the quests so they get to experience most of the mud. When they reach rank 5 they get promoted to "seasoned adventurer" or something and are kicked out into the "real" world. Would make the mindless exping seem less mindless since they need to collect the scalps of the things they kill and would make it obvious to the rest of us who are the new players we can take under our wings. Unsure how feasible that is, or if its easier to just design it as a flag, similar to Known DF/Seanchan sworn.

I guess this doesn't really do much for older players, but Rache's post gave me an idea.

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Sanguine » Sun May 23, 2021 7:27 pm

Saif wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:52 pm
Could be an idea to make a "newbie clan" where they can rank up etc. So they get a taste of how clans work. Something akin to when you first log on you get asked if you are a completely new player, if yes they get autoclanned into the "Adventurer" clan. After they stat, they can do simple things such as bring elk scalps/ancient tree scalps for a couple qps etc. Design the quests so they get to experience most of the mud. When they reach rank 5 they get promoted to "seasoned adventurer" or something and are kicked out into the "real" world. Would make the mindless exping seem less mindless since they need to collect the scalps of the things they kill and would make it obvious to the rest of us who are the new players we can take under our wings. Unsure how feasible that is, or if its easier to just design it as a flag, similar to Known DF/Seanchan sworn.

I guess this doesn't really do much for older players, but Rache's post gave me an idea.
Yeah. When/who made Clive? Honestly I have not done him, so I can't say if it's good or bad. It's gotta be better than it used to be, but I've come up with a few (not new, I'm sure) ideas recently.

1) (I've changed my mind) Remove the ability to HEAR chats/narrs from levels 1-5, but allow levels 1-5 to chat or narrate - just means us players need to respond with tells. This eliminates the option for PKers to use a stat bot VPN char as an x-race spy, which I've recently heard as something that our prominent PKers have done. Unsure if it's true but fix it anyway.

2) Give players the option to drawing a clan like Saif said.

3) A massive amount of work, but create auto clanning processes for most of the city clans. Allow players within those clans to get to rank 5, but then they need to pass a vote or something to proceed. This solves a couple things with the difficulty of clanning, finding active clan members in the clan you're looking to get into, as well as allowing players to weed out jerks (which should be possible).

Razhak
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:43 am

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Razhak » Mon May 24, 2021 7:04 am

People are always confusing things in these kinds of threads. Even in the above posts people are talking about things that attract new players cris-crossed with things to attract old players to come back.

Most old players who left, left because of real life issues making it harder for them to invest the time needed to play. This game is quite time consuming if you want to achieve things, and most old players have actually achieved things already. Hence for them to be enticed to come back, there need be new things for them to achieve.

This is a totally different beast from how to attract new players. Whereas a new player needs a way to learn, grow and get engrossed into the mud, most old players need a way for them to get back into the mindset where they want to spend (waste??) their time doing things on this mud.

Breaking this down, basically new players need:
- newbie quests and/or clans for them to learn
- easy access to gold/basic equipment for them to re-eq and rent after "losing everything"
- good pre-rolled characters on all sides (the whole "experienced players" thing for different sides should be abandoned in my opinion).

What newbies do not need is:
- special flags or protections: this will only postpone the time for them to get killed cross-race, only postponing them being exposed to this. Better to get into the unlimited pk mud right away, so that if it is not for them, they dont waste their time (remember that this kind of pk/mud is not everyone's piece of cake, and thats ok).

On the other hand, old players returning need the following:
- an easy way to get rid of excessive rent costs, so that they dont log on, see 10k rent debit, and then quit out to never return.
- an easy way to get back to their clanranks. There is a way actually, but I would like for everyone who rented more then 365 days to see like a message at log-in that they can get reranked to rank 5 at the master blacksmith, and for over rank 5 to contact their immortal + an up to date immortal list for each side/clan/etc.
- an easy way to get rerolls. The current rerolls are crap (broken or intended), and I wonder whether this is intentional or an oversight. If it is intentional, I would suggest a rethinking of this policy. Rerolls working as before, will actually make it so that people can use their old characters in all kinds of ways, instead of having to waste time re-statting new characters. I would rather see old names run around then people wasting time to stat for competitive stats, which in itself can drive old players away again.


On a more philosofical matter, I actually do agree with Ominas in a way that bonusses can get old players back. Remember, most of these players left because they lack time, but also alot of people leave once they feel like they "achieved everything" they can achieve (or in better words, that they can achieve without having to "start all over again"). In this matter I actually think that more bonusses can help out here, but with more bonusses, I actually mean: a redistribution of bonusses: spread bonusses out way more across sides and clans.

This way, you give people new and exciting things to work on, and also make it more worth while to invest in characters rather then keep statting a plethora of new characters for whatever (especially the reroll rethink would be a big thing here).

At the moment most bonusses are concentrated in a few clans/remort characters, I would propose to spread this out, and I would rather call them "post-master" bonusses for humans, seanchans and trollocs:


HUMANS

Reqs:

2000qps, kill a DS "cityhead" (Akkad, Hkretth, Blarg, Boghag, Shaidar, Maeltor, Dreadlord J.) or a SS cityhead

Justiceclans, Gleemen, Illuminators, Gaidin, Legion, Thiefbane, Kandori Merchant Guild:

Swordmaster

Bonus:

Gain bladeforms (same ones as now).

Gain +10pb and +5 ob (This would be on top of master postures)

Cannot group with other Swordmasters, Forest Minions, Assassins or Big ruffians.


Iron fist

Big Ruffian

Gain +1 strength

Gain attack on 2-handed bashing weapons.

Cannot group with other Big ruffians, Forest Minions, Assassins or Swordmasters.


Forresters

Forest Minion

Gain wolfbrother moves/movement bonusses/malusses

Gain free outdoor scan

Cannot group with other Forest Minions, Big ruffians, Assassins or Swordmasters.


Black Talon

Assassin

Gain +1 dex

Gain free sneak/hide

Cannot group with other Assassins, Forest Minions, Big ruffians or Swordmasters.



SEANCHANS

Reqs:

2000qps, kill a LS "cityhead" or a DS "cityhead"


Morat'torm and Morat'raken

Member of the High Blood (rank 7's are already rping members of the blood)

Bonus:

Gain bladeforms (same ones as now).

Gain +10pb and +5 ob (This would be on top of master postures)

Cannot group with other Members of the High Blood or Deathwatch Ogier.


Seanchan Deathwatch

Bonus:

Gain +2 strength, +2 constitution (reroll hps), -5 dexterity down to a minimum of 9

Can only use axes

Cannot ride horses (give them trolloc moves)

Cannot group with other Members of the High Blood or Deathwatch Ogier.



DARKSIDE

Ghar'ghael

Behemoth

Bonus:

gain +2 strength, +2 constitution (reroll hps), -5 dexterity (to a minimum of 9)

Cannot group with other Behemoths, Grey Men, Shadow Prowlers, Shadow Zealots or Dark Tyrants


Dha'vol

Shadow Prowler

Bonus:

Gain 50 moves and increased regen

Gain free ranger sneak.

Cannot group with other Behemoths, Grey Men, Shadow Prowlers, Shadow Zealots or Dark Tyrants


Ko'bal

Grey Man

Bonus:

Get set to the grey man class as test-played: basically become a human DS hunter, ability to ride horses, etc.

Cannot group with other Behemoths, Grey Men, Shadow Prowlers, Shadow Zealots or Dark Tyrants


Dhai'mon

Dark Tyrant

Bonus:

Gain the ability to lead +1 groupmember

All Dhai'mon grouped with the Dark Tyrant are immune to fear, chill and contagion

Cannot group with other Behemoths, Grey Men, Shadow Prowlers, Shadow Zealots or Dark Tyrants


Ahf'frait

Shadow Zealot

Bonus:

Autorescue on Chosen in the group.

Can switch targets to attack the biggest threats to his master.

Can be "bonded" by Rank 5+ Dreadlords only for hps drain.

Cannot group with other Behemoths, Grey Men, Shadow Prowlers, Shadow Zealots or Dark Tyrants




I actually have no real idea's for WB's, Warders, Kin, Wisdoms and Aes Sedai, as they already have bonusses or are channelers (non-channie wisdoms might be eligable for these??).

These would be my ideas about other clans and races. You will notice that the reqs are a bit higher then fading reqs, because you dont need to get the alt-qps that are a big hurdle in fading nowadays. They are however lower then rank 8 bonusses. The Rank 8 bonusses should be scaled back to only the weapon/chestpiece, personal rooms and perhaps the stats increase, so that rank 8 coupled with post-master bonusses would be about the same as rank 8 now (remove zone sense alltogether for rank 8!).

For DS this should be a choice thing though. Once a trolloc choses this path over fading, there should be no turning back. Its either this, or fading.

Please dont argue about the exact bonusses per clan/side/whatever, these are just my own basic ramblings, its the tenet of having spread out bonusses accessible for all clanned people out there, that is what this post is about. If imms would decide to actually do this, then is the time to start discussing the exact bonusses per post-master option :P

Davor
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:38 pm

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Davor » Mon May 24, 2021 7:57 am

Agree with Naerin. Bring back old rerolls. Everyone currently playing or who played in the last few years before it was changed enjoyed the tremendous benefits of it. Also, who cares if it’s abused until you fix it. By definition that player has given you 200 mud years and often even more. Who cares at this point, stats are the worst and most pointless part of this game in the modern era.

Having a huge bump in my character would make me play again anyways. If I was ever able to quit.

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Kordin » Mon May 24, 2021 8:10 am

Davor wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 7:57 am
Agree with Naerin. Bring back old rerolls. Everyone currently playing or who played in the last few years before it was changed enjoyed the tremendous benefits of it. Also, who cares if it’s abused until you fix it. By definition that player has given you 200 mud years and often even more. Who cares at this point, stats are the worst and most pointless part of this game in the modern era.

Having a huge bump in my character would make me play again anyways. If I was ever able to quit.
IMHO it doesn't even have to be old rerolls. There is probably some note in every chars file how many rerolls were used, and how many are available (or should be). Instead of rerolls, give a +1 to a stat. If stats are so bad, give a few more points until it's some kind of average for todays standards.

The mechanics for that are already here, since it's a R8 bonus. Add the same for R7. Introduce a chit for it or something that players can work for. It probably won't give the "instant satisfaction" that old rerolls would by just typing reroll and picking a nice 86 or whatever statsum, but it's something.

Dartes
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:30 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Dartes » Mon May 24, 2021 8:19 am

Saif wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 6:52 pm
Could be an idea to make a "newbie clan" where they can rank up etc. So they get a taste of how clans work. Something akin to when you first log on you get asked if you are a completely new player, if yes they get autoclanned into the "Adventurer" clan.
Hunter of the Horn! Rpish! Newbie can go to Illian Square and pledge to join the Hunt. Adds a bit of adventure and immersion. Could have thematic quests. Makes them explore a bit, feel a part of something, and gets more people to visit a city that's pretty isolated at the moment. It's also politically agnostic, so it would be a good first step without hurting chances at other clans while still being solidly within WoT lore. Win-win.

Saif
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:53 am

Re: Discussion: How to bring back old players

Post by Saif » Mon May 24, 2021 9:06 am

Kordin wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 8:10 am
Davor wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 7:57 am
Agree with Naerin. Bring back old rerolls. Everyone currently playing or who played in the last few years before it was changed enjoyed the tremendous benefits of it. Also, who cares if it’s abused until you fix it. By definition that player has given you 200 mud years and often even more. Who cares at this point, stats are the worst and most pointless part of this game in the modern era.

Having a huge bump in my character would make me play again anyways. If I was ever able to quit.
IMHO it doesn't even have to be old rerolls. There is probably some note in every chars file how many rerolls were used, and how many are available (or should be). Instead of rerolls, give a +1 to a stat. If stats are so bad, give a few more points until it's some kind of average for todays standards.

The mechanics for that are already here, since it's a R8 bonus. Add the same for R7. Introduce a chit for it or something that players can work for. It probably won't give the "instant satisfaction" that old rerolls would by just typing reroll and picking a nice 86 or whatever statsum, but it's something.
I think the issue here is that the extra stat point has to be done by an immortal. So it creates a lot of work for immortals to hash out the details with which statpoint is going where for what character, and having to look and see if x char has sub Y statpoints and is eligible for 2 statpoints. Isn't a huge issue atm since there aren't a whole lot of people who are r8, and it is usually not all at once, but if it was on every reroll I imagine it'd create a huge amount of work for immortals.
I think it is only 104 that can do the added statpoint, so would be down to the few 104s we have to do it. If it was coded in to be automatic, you just hit "reroll" and it does "where would you like your extra point, S, W, I,D,C" it would likely be doable and preferable to our current reroll system, where it is basically just up to luck, even with the old system, unless you took advantage of the loophole.

I like Razhak's idea for more end game stuff. It is one of the reasons I'm not around as much anymore, I feel like I've accomplished what goals I had and I'm in sort of limbo with what to do next. I still enjoy logging on for the occasional PK, but without a fixed goal in mind, I don't find myself coming back as often as I did when I was chasing r8/remort/master/whatever on my different chars. The whole ogier remort thing for forrester/deathwatch was pretty interesting, sad it never really worked out, was fun seeing those buggy magenta players the one day where it was imped.

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