Questions about the shifting focus

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Yonio
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:59 am

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Yonio » Fri May 14, 2021 9:05 pm

Agree on upping the punishment, however first due the due diligence to make sure they're actually guilty, and then build in a get out of jail free period. People change - many of us used to cheat back in the day. Or maybe do or have just a "tiny" bit recently (mend bug, anyone?).

#1 priority should be closing loopholes so people CAN'T cheat. This is a game, it's relatively natural to try and cheat, because it's not like you're breaking the law or anything..

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Elysia » Fri May 14, 2021 9:05 pm

Rig wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:12 pm
Yea, I mean obviously the same people who abuse mechanics/bugs/exploits/whatever are going to do it across multiple alts. I'm just saying it's a waste of time and resources spent, and helps nobody in the long run especially when it comes down to not wanting to imp things because of said abuse. Easier to just imp it, set the ground rules then and there, and call it good.

Even if say, Rig abused rpkudos to get 100 qps total across 3 alts, just go to the extreme and straight to declanning + a zap for that char and the other chars. Instead of taking all of the time and willpower to go through every minute detail. Straight to the chopping block. Do it again and get banned. I almost guarantee that people will be less likely to abuse things if you go straight to the extreme side of punishment.
This will not work, for one simple reason: players crying how unfairly they were treated and completely underplaying what they did, rallying the playerbase about how totally unfair imms are, and lots of negativity. That will make the game look like a cesspool, with the added malus that imms end up burning out and players quitting.

Punishments have generally become less severe as players have less time. It used to be that if you missed the waiting time between alting with one second, you would be zapped from level 51 to 5. We no longer do that, unless people are absolutely blatant.

Drybones
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:36 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Drybones » Fri May 14, 2021 9:44 pm

My personal feeling is that RP is tied to clanning in a weird way. Clan RP is pretty straightforward, but there are tons of interesting rp that can happen outside of clan activities. Having rewards tied to qps is pretty limiting in terms of enticing people to develop characters prior to clanning. I feel obligated to clan characters to have any sort of progression. I'd personally be pumped if qps could be accumulated by anyone, giving them the same incentive as clanned to do things, RP and PK alike.

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Kordin » Sat May 15, 2021 1:43 am

Yonio wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:03 pm
Kordin wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:41 am
Yonio wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:34 am
Kudos to the imm who joined in on the fun, and for reminding us of rpkudos, because I forgot about it. Remind others - they're forgetting too.
People also forget about https://wotmud.fandom.com/wiki/Pay_It_Forward

One of the reasons why rewarding people for not just participating but also suggesting others for RP/PiF rewards, might be good as well.

If one side forgets to leave rpkudos, the side that does leave it, still get's soemthing - even if it is at a (i.e.) 2x slower rate.
Ha! Yup. The systems are well-meaning but poorly designed if people are forgetting or don't know how to use them. :( People know how to turn in PK scalps (though even that could be could be less confusing to a returning player! Lol).
TBF it isn't just about forgetting or not knowing, it's also about "this is a PK mud" which is essentially - just not caring.

Kordin
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Kordin » Sat May 15, 2021 1:50 am

Drybones wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:44 pm
My personal feeling is that RP is tied to clanning in a weird way. Clan RP is pretty straightforward, but there are tons of interesting rp that can happen outside of clan activities. Having rewards tied to qps is pretty limiting in terms of enticing people to develop characters prior to clanning. I feel obligated to clan characters to have any sort of progression. I'd personally be pumped if qps could be accumulated by anyone, giving them the same incentive as clanned to do things, RP and PK alike.
I think you can get QPs as unclanned, it's all in your char file, the reward mobol probably just checks your clan status and if clanned, gives QPs instead of cash or whatever.

Problem is, as unclanned you've no use for them...that I can remember at least. Not u less clans and Imms decide that unclaneds can pick QPs over cash as reward, and when apply get clanned and go up to a certain rank immediately due to spotless RP. Which seems like something from NWIH list or at least highly unlikely but possible.

Also might cause issues and a lot of work for barely anyone doing that kind of RP work...?

Developing chars prior to claning is what most do already. In a very minimal and basic way - RP letter of application. And then maybe RP letter for Mastering.. Or just QPs and "sup.. Quest when? “

Jael
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:12 am

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Jael » Sat May 15, 2021 7:46 am

I think maybe this has to do with capturing the expected influx of players once the show comes out. It's likely those types are probably going to want to live out their own personal slice of wheel of time immersement.

There was a great RP based WoT MUD back in the day that had a sort of renown system, basically our TPs system and once you hit certain gates, mobs would respond differently to you, that type of thing. They even had a ranking system for normal everyday citizens so you could 'rank' up from commoner to middle class and so on.

It made you feel some kind of RP progress when you started the game and you'd walk into shops and the shopkeeper would emote things like 'eyes you with bored contempt' or whatever, to progressing to guards nodding at you, and then noble mobs greeting you etc.

Greater minds than mind could probably think this out, but what if RP related things granted you TPs, and then accumulation of TPs then influenced in small ways how other aspects of the game react to your player.

The average pker wouldn't care about things like this, but for those more rp centric, and for newer players to be interacted with, might help.

It may also open further doors to develop the whole great game aspect

I appreciate if in application this would be alot of work, but maybe the mobol wizards have an easier solution

Just a thought

Skurk
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Skurk » Sat May 15, 2021 8:50 am

Drybones wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:44 pm
My personal feeling is that RP is tied to clanning in a weird way. Clan RP is pretty straightforward, but there are tons of interesting rp that can happen outside of clan activities. Having rewards tied to qps is pretty limiting in terms of enticing people to develop characters prior to clanning. I feel obligated to clan characters to have any sort of progression. I'd personally be pumped if qps could be accumulated by anyone, giving them the same incentive as clanned to do things, RP and PK alike.
Hard agree. I always find it weird that people being good at fighting is tied to their rank - to me the lord/lady etc is cool and r7-8 def should be something saught after but maybe related more to how much they put into the clan rather than their ability to pk. A good pker can master in a couple months easily, while someone less pk focused might give a lot to the clan, stock the chest and help people out, rp etc and be rank 5 after 2 years or whatever.

Second thing that's weird is, like, imagine a navy seal leaves the seal teams, does he suddenly loose all his experience fighting? ww2 vet gets out of the army, is he now a normal civilian?

Anyway unlikely any changes made there - just always thought qp/experience fighting should be unrelated to what rank you are. Clan rank is more rp to me, and master damage is more experience fighting. Not a huge deal though obviously.

Drybones
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:36 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Drybones » Sat May 15, 2021 3:35 pm

I was thinking about how to reach a broader audience with RP based qps, and Jael's idea seems pretty solid.

I was thinking along the lines of broader, automated guilds you could join. Like the woodworkers/mining guilds, maybe there is a hunters guild where you learn to track, a warriors guild where you learn about combat mechanics. Tower already has this for FC's I suppose. Now we have a merchants guild, craftsmen could work similarly. People could join these as a stepping stone to other clans. It would indicate you are training to do some role within the mud, and give you some RP opportunities with each clan to see who you like playing with, etc. QPs could transfer in similar to the way EVA works.

In all, I think the thing limiting RP the most is the fact that we don't have a fully functional society, especially in terms of how rewards work. The exchanges we have set up for non-combat QPs discourage player interaction. I.e., wisdoms turning in potions to the broker, and then people turning in trinkets to the mobs for potions. Or, KMG turning in gear to market hall, and players buying from mobs. It's convenient in a lot of ways, but you lose the opportunity for those interactions to turn into RP. For instance, it would be cool if there was a room in each city where you could trade with a KMG or wisdom and have it log the qps automatically for the trade using some syntax (put it on a scroll or something in the room).

Channeling is very scary in the books to most people. I would rather buy a str tea from a Forrester who focuses on wisdom lore in FD than let an FC weave me, but the game isn't really set up to reward that type of bookish interaction.

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Elysia » Sat May 15, 2021 6:51 pm

Before Giramael took a break, he was working on citizen occupations. I forget what they all were, but I think they included farming and lumberjacking. However, your character being flagged in a certain way, doesn't really make people interact ICly. Especially since this wouldn't be coded, so there wouldn't be any title or tag associated with your character to show off your background.

Personally, I've always wanted stats to not matter and allowing people to buy citizenship and have citizens have privileges. In a world where stats matter though, that won't work.

Also Jael, this has nothing to do with the tv show. It has to do with a bunch of lower level imms being active and having taken over clans, obstacles like weapons changes being out of the way, meaning there are resources to shift focus. Pretty much, the work on making smobbing, crafting and so on is as good as it gets, pk mostly benefits from coding changes which are underway but not something we control and that leaves rp. And exploration I guess, but I expect that requires some coding to actually reflect the amount of rooms a player has visited, assuming that's even possible. :?:

Several things have been tried over the years, including RP log of the month, with player judges. That didn't work because people dropped out, meaning player panels doesn't work. Which is why I'm fishing for ideas.

As for mobs responding to status, some already do. ;)

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Questions about the shifting focus

Post by Sanguine » Sat May 15, 2021 9:43 pm

Beg for more code files/functions. Ya gotta be earning Flasher's trust somehow? I can't see a world and where he actually cares enough about the game to hang on to specific files, other than to stop the code from being stolen again. Maybe I'm wrong.

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