Questions about the shifting focus

[Adael]

Personally, I've always wanted stats to not matter and allowing people to buy citizenship and have citizens have privileges. In a world where stats matter though, that won't work.

Why not? Not sure what would that have to do with stats...?

So long as homelands influence stats, that isn’t an option is presumably what she means.

[Elysia]

Personally, I've always wanted stats to not matter and allowing people to buy citizenship and have citizens have privileges. In a world where stats matter though, that won't work.

Why not? Not sure what would that have to do with stats...?

So long as homelands influence stats, that isn’t an option is presumably what she means.

Stats and subsequently rerolls. I'd settle for everything rolling like Seandar and every homeland being picked for rp reasons. And people being able to change them and get perks from that nation. But... stats.

I'm going to have to re-direct this. It seems to me a lot of people are just using this thread to voice pet peeves and that isn't going to get us anywhere.

I'm also not looking for ideas to re-design the whole game. The idea of this thread is to get ideas on how to help players do things that help RP along. This ideally includes getting people to post RP logs more, because unfortunately, people often think that if they don't see it, it doesn't happen.

So more to the point:
Can you think of a way to make roleplayers more inclined to post their roleplay? Like each clan having a roleplay thread for more secret interactions, or awarding qps for posting? That would still not fix the general roleplay forum being dead, so ideas to get people to post there, too, would be great.

If a player RP panel reading and awarding logs would help, can you think of a way that would help a such panel stick around? That was what made a previous effort fall flat.

Can you think of a way to make Councillors award more reliably for RP and not make it so that in more pk oriented clans, someone has to "beg" to be awarded for RP? Because that might lead to people simply not bothering posting.

Can you think of a way to improve inter-clan RP being rewarded? There's been talk upstairs of a monthly pool of qps a clan could give out for such interactions. Although I'm not sure if I can actually make that work, would that be something people would be interested in?

I do like the RP ranks/ perks idea, but that would have to be entirely moboled and that is going to be tricky. There are no spare coded functions we could use either and awarding rpers alt qps seems like a baaaad idea.

Does this help to clarify along which lines I'm looking for ideas?

[vaheed]

Call me lazy if you want but posting any sort of a log is kind of a chore. By that I mean you have to go through and edit things say there's something on your stats or score you don't want seen say you use a mechanic you don't want people to know about excetera excetera and with a role-play log you really got to get the scissors out

[Kordin]

Can you think of a way to make roleplayers more inclined to post their roleplay?

Award those posts. I don't know what else would make people post. Sudden mud-wide appreciation for RP? Don't see that happening. Those who appreciate RP will continue, those who don't...well guess they didn't bother posting here so they'll keep avoiding it I assume.

Like each clan having a roleplay thread for more secret interactions, or awarding qps for posting? That would still not fix the general roleplay forum being dead, so ideas to get people to post there, too, would be great.

If clan has any kind of secret interactions, shouldn't they already keep logs of those? Trades, treaties, plans and schemes etc.

If a player RP panel reading and awarding logs would help, can you think of a way that would help a such panel stick around? That was what made a previous effort fall flat.

Reward their effort. As Council should be up for vote and previous time served rewarded. But that's probably not happening in all clans. So again, Imm oversight and awarding is needed.

Can you think of a way to make Councillors award more reliably for RP and not make it so that in more pk oriented clans, someone has to "beg" to be awarded for RP? Because that might lead to people simply not bothering posting.

Isn't awarding for RP logs basically a rule for all Council, regardless of clan? 1-3 QPs per RP log/story posted.

[iria]

Isn't awarding for RP logs basically a rule for all Council, regardless of clan? 1-3 QPs per RP log/story posted.

Never heard of it before in any of the clans I've been in. Some Council might have made it a "council quest" to RP, but don't think I've ever been in a clan where it was a hard rule for Council to award for RP interactions.

[isabel]

Isn't Council restricted in how many qps we can award per six months or something like that? I think for different things there should be different quotas:

- qps for doing off-peak time stuff that can be quest, small tasks etc (just activity)
- qps for learning pk mechanics, getting better at fighting (pk oriented)
- qps for Rp/staying IC/driving Rp events

A total of 30 (?) for all this over six months is too little imo.

And yes, official clan business (small example - the lancer-tv treaty was a number of interactions/letters/in-game talks all IC for example), can be quite tedious, and never gets rewarded.

Working with Accepteds/Applicants/Darkfriends etc - no system of rewards for the high rank person afaik.

What would help is clear expectations - who can award, how much is reasonable, what is the process for everybody involved to get rewarded.

A player panel is an excellent idea - comprising of players who are actively invested in driving the RP on the game (I know Catisune was and had even mailed Austin with ideas I think? I know Kordin is, Ominas is, some others also.) Honestly if this is player driven and players are given some creative agency, I think people who have quit would consider coming back.

- Need the effort / reward to be worthwhile (not bringing up gripes just as an example and echoing what others are saying quite strongly, I know a player who spent a week farming / gathering stuff, 6 hours waiting to meet the high rank person, 30 mins-ish of RP/hand-in stuff, at the end gets... 1 qp). Similarly many of the RP posts take a lot of time/work/crafting, and at least some have been awarded like 1-3 qp at most. Another thing is something like broker - can hand in stuff and then wait ages and no one is issuing, it's Very demoralising - whereas if you actualy get the reward, it feels good.

tl/dr- If people are Rping, it needs to get some kind of reward.

- Story progression. RP to be fun needs to have some kind of development etc. The problem is that any time there's any kind of conflict/discord it is shut down for very ooc reasons of - i dont want to deal with it. Look at any book or movie - the reason it is interesting is becasue there is conflict. It's not about ooc frustration - it's about how can we create some fun drama that can be taken forward. Your weddings etc or whatever may have had RP but how interesting is it when everyone is rping happy people? Again not saying this to gripe at all because I don't care, but only a few months ago there was so much heavy handed involvement from imms against what clans wanted - you have to let players and clans take RP forward, make decisions, suffer the consequences.

tl/dr - A story needs conflict to be interesting. Imms should allow clans/players should develop without pushing their RP scripts

- RP script - this is the #1 problem imo. People up the ranks and up the mortal/imm chain are not open to interpreation. As a student of English Lit, this drives me NUTS. Any book has a hundred interpretations - Hamlet is the greatest existential philosopher, Hamlet is secretly in love with his mother, etc etc the list is endless. Here what do we have? "But this one line in the book says female Gaidin were rare so no we won't have them even though two main characters actually were bonded to female Gaidin" Lol. Again not a gripe because I don't care, but this kind of thing stifles Rp. It's not just imms, it's players too. "XYZ is RPing a cat - that's really annoying" - so don't RP with thatplayer, but we need to create an atmosphere where DIVERSE RP IS WELCOME. Creativity is all about being open to new things and more things, not feeling threatened and fragile that if a Gaidin isn't Lan the stone face then it's a problem.

tl/dr - The focus should really be on HOW WELL they are RPing and not WHAT they are Rping.

- A system of rewarding so many players for so many different interactions CANNOT be based on forum posts, player posts, messages, thank you notes etc. I have done a thousand thank you notes and I cannot. I feel bad when a Wisdom gives me potions now because it's just paperwork for me. IMagine if for every pk scalp we had to post and ask. It's so tedious both ways. Some of you either love to do paperwork or are very good at it or very patient or all three. But you're also kind of thinking that other people are these things but it's a game and not work (!).

tl/dr - Have a core group you trust who don't have to run things by imms and who can act much more independently and freely. Include clan masters in this when it comes to clan RP. Let them award at will without needing everything checked and increase the award cap.

For the latter I'm thinking of players like Ibzon, Kordin, Catisune, Weir, Ominas, etc people who CARE about this game and RP, and building a world where an interactive story is at work.

If the only interlocutor is the person who might abuse stuf, then we are all doomed to cower in the shadow of these Rasputins.

[Elysia]

Isn't Council restricted in how many qps we can award per six months or something like that?

Council can issue 30 qps worth of QUESTS every 6 months.
Plus bonus pk qps, like 5 per month.
Plus 3 qps a month for treasury contributions at a 1000 gcs = 1 qp rate.
Rp qps are unrestricted and always have been, but follow the 1-3 qps tract, where 3 is for outstanding rp and not to just be given every single time. Like normal quest qps restrictions.

[isabel]

Isn't Council restricted in how many qps we can award per six months or something like that?

Council can issue 30 qps worth of QUESTS every 6 months.
Plus bonus pk qps, like 5 per month.
Plus 3 qps a month for treasury contributions at a 1000 gcs = 1 qp rate.
Rp qps are unrestricted and always have been, but follow the 1-3 qps tract, where 3 is for outstanding rp and not to just be given every single time. Like normal quest qps restrictions.

What is under quests though? I had this impression because a rank 1-2 zone test stuff is surely not quest but we were told it would fall under the total of 30 qps per six motnhs? Quest would be like 'go fetch this / kill smob' some general activity right? Alternatively, 'help xyz Aes Sedai' could be Rp or quest or how?

It's not really clear - unless it is specifically that an RP post in RP forums is what is Rp and that it is 1-3 qps per post? I don't know if you read the rest of my post but in itself it's basically going to be a lot of writing for very few qps. I think someone investing in that kind of writing isn't really doing it for regular qps at that point. So if we want an active rolling Rp thing going it needs to be defined not only in more effort-reward terms but also in terms of interest-story development levels.

See for instance one of the more exciting things that happens on the game is (nobody laugh) pk - like this door fight earlier. So can a gleeman write a story around it? Ther have been RP players who had htat idea, but it got shot down because it had to be 'original material' - which meant some version of wheel of time stuff nad not wotmud stuff. At that point it borderline ceases to be interesting and turns into some kind of on-the-spot fanfic often with very little story development. At that point, someone may be quite talented and may even put a lot of work /effort and create drama /conflict / tension that is good enough to read independently - then what? They get 1-3 qps? It doesnt' compute right.

My suggestion would be if someone is doing that kind of thing then award them up to 50 qp per post when it's good. That may sound like a lot, but it's really not - it's something like 7 heads. A good chapter for someone doing it as a hobby would take maybe a week to put together (approx estimate), that's about average for many pkers to get 7 scalps in a week of low-activity pk.

[Elysia]

What is under quests though? I had this impression because a rank 1-2 zone test stuff is surely not quest but we were told it would fall under the total of 30 qps per six motnhs? Quest would be like 'go fetch this / kill smob' some general activity right? Alternatively, 'help xyz Aes Sedai' could be Rp or quest or how

A quest is typically something like: go do this. So yes, go speak to xyz would be an RP quest, go help xyz is more of a do-something with them political stuff quest. Still a quest.

RP qps are just aimed at people either rping with applicants, things that randomly happen to them, or a storyline they're working on and so on.

50 qps is absolutely ludicrous imo. The RP already happened in the game, so essentially you get qps for pulling it through the RP-lizer and taking out some spammy stuff. While I can get behind 3 qps being on the meagre scale, that qp awarding amount also dates back from when I started imming and like has been said, RP fell by the wayside. Even writing a story, you're doing that in absolute safety, and sure it will take time, but definitely not 50 qps worth of time.

As for people not being rewarded for treaties and such, you're going to have to mail imms. That's the stuff that will fly under the radar, because there's always half a dozen admin things to do.

[isabel]

Yeah I meant 50 for writing stuff, not in-game RP through lizer.

That said, I guess I do value my words and time and would not want to invest in serious storytelling here except once in a blue moon on a whim (as we see here), unless it meant actual character progression in the way that pk generally does. Not sure what safety has to do with it - it's actually totally unrelated to anything in game besides setting up your IC conversations (or your IC conversations setting up your storytelling).

Mailing imms is more paperwork isnt' it? That's what I meant by a system where you trust clan masters / RP core team to award than having to mail in each time. Isn't it like - wisdom gives us vials, Isabel sends IC note of thanks x100, Isabel mails imms to request rp qps x 20, Imm puts in time to award Isabel, somethingsomething award for Imm's labour now..it's a cycle of labour that is JUST paperwork. Instead Wisdom gives vial, makes a note - wisdoms meet once a month and wisdom council awards a bunch of people what is owed. Done. Isabel meets Wisdom and RP happens. Another master passing by /or if it's iunteresting enough to post reads it on forums and awards Isabel and is Done. etc