Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

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zeek
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:46 pm

Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by zeek » Wed May 05, 2021 11:17 am

I think using waygates should have a cool down similiar to every other "Escape" route i.e. riding the raken out of TD etc.

Basically, if you have noquit, you shouldn't be able to get into waygates. Worst case scenario, add some mobol when you "pull leaf" and put a delayed timer on opening the waygate, i.e. 10 seconds.

Tell me why this should happen or why it shouldn't. Just purely looking for popular opinion.

Nunzio
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 am
Location: USA, Virginia

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Nunzio » Wed May 05, 2021 11:35 am

To me, making a waygate respond to a noquit makes no RP sense. If I recall correctly, the ways were used in the books as an escape route from danger. **Maybe** the ways would have worked that way back when there was no taint, but the taint could have distorted any kind of protection like that.

Having innkeepers and the such not letting you rent when you have noquit does make some sense, as they may have caught wind of people looking for you, or you may seem battered from battle, etc. The mobs that care about noquit make a heck of a lot more sense to respond to it than some thoughtless, tainted, magical mechanism.

Roryn
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:42 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Roryn » Wed May 05, 2021 12:10 pm

Unneeded waste of energy? Just chase them into the ways like you would chase them anywhere else?

It's not like they disappear or log off the game, they still exist and are accessible if you want to pursue them, so not needed.

byrg
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by byrg » Wed May 05, 2021 12:49 pm

Roryn wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:10 pm
Unneeded waste of energy? Just chase them into the ways like you would chase them anywhere else?

It's not like they disappear or log off the game, they still exist and are accessible if you want to pursue them, so not needed.
This. There have even been some interesting/amusing fights *in* the ways in the past.

Razhak
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:43 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Razhak » Wed May 05, 2021 2:05 pm

Nothing against waygates here from me. I dont think any cooldown moment is needed.

However, what I personally do dislike is the ease with which people are able to map them each reboot. More randomness in their layouts would really make them a bit more of a wild card and make think twice or thrice before running through them on autopilot :P

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Sanguine » Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm

As someone who doesn't ever use waygates and doesn't know how to, my only comment is that if we took the approach of not being able to escape through them, it would create more interesting PK, I think. There are plenty of ways to escape back up north or back toward Falme. Leave it to horses or resting moves at troll patties and people's zone knowledge, not some get out of free jail card back to Keep.

byrg
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by byrg » Wed May 05, 2021 5:15 pm

Sanguine wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm
As someone who doesn't ever use waygates and doesn't know how to, my only comment is that if we took the approach of not being able to escape through them, it would create more interesting PK, I think. There are plenty of ways to escape back up north or back toward Falme. Leave it to horses or resting moves at troll patties and people's zone knowledge, not some get out of free jail card back to Keep.
I feel like... if you admittedly haven't used them and don't understand how they work, its perhaps a bit unfair to call them a get out of jail free card? Just last week I was chasing someone through them who misspammed and DT'd. I think about a week ago we had a post where someone died from machin emotes... I'd hardly call them risk free or a "get out of jail free card" - as others have stated, it's fairly easy to chase through them, or block the gate, and I've definitely seen people die trying to run away through them - I've died in them several times trying to do exactly that myself.

Adael
Posts: 1081
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:34 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Adael » Wed May 05, 2021 6:09 pm

zeek wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 11:17 am
I think using waygates should have a cool down similiar to every other "Escape" route i.e. riding the raken out of TD etc.

Basically, if you have noquit, you shouldn't be able to get into waygates. Worst case scenario, add some mobol when you "pull leaf" and put a delayed timer on opening the waygate, i.e. 10 seconds.

Tell me why this should happen or why it shouldn't. Just purely looking for popular opinion.
You can't pull the leaf while engaged. So long as someone is spamming at the waygate, that's a pretty easy way to stop anyone from entering unless they have a friend opening from inside.
It's not instant, there is a short timer on the mobol that takes it a moment to open.
It's not a guarantee the door will open with one pull leaf, you've got to enter the command a few times sometimes (granted it's not hard to spam a command, but if you're being chased that's wasted time).
Razhak wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:05 pm
Nothing against waygates here from me. I dont think any cooldown moment is needed.

However, what I personally do dislike is the ease with which people are able to map them each reboot. More randomness in their layouts would really make them a bit more of a wild card and make think twice or thrice before running through them on autopilot :P
If the layout of the main path wasn't consistent, they would never get used as you'd likely have to waste an absurd amount of time figuring out what leads where. See: search guiding or whatever the previous iteration was.
IMO the best way to make the ways harder to use would be to add more levels/tiers to the zone than the 3 or so there currently, with more nodes and exits to more locations. That way you could REALLY start playing with large numbers of combinations and making it hard to know what exit is going to be present at a particular node that day. But that's likely an unpopular opinion and coding/probably NWIH :P
Edit: It also wouldn't hurt to move around some of the exits from levels as they are. Currently the two bottom level nodes all lead to Blight/TV/EF/Spine I think. You always know that Jafar/Seandar/Chico will be on the second or third level of the ways. Mixing these up a bit more would go a long ways towards people having to run through more of the Ways to get somewhere -> more interactions with Machin Shin -> more death/less easy to use.

Agree with Byrg, people still DT semi-regularly, and as it is with some of the changes to Machin Shin it's a lot harder to spam through and not lose a lot of hp. If someone is going into the ways low bat/beat, there's a decent chance they'll die inside or after they exit due to Machin Shin mobol.

Rodger
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:41 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Rodger » Wed May 05, 2021 6:53 pm

If you want to make them harder then you add some loops to interconnect the linear path, makes shorter paths once known but makes it about 10x harder to learn em. See original ways where without autotrack you could literally go in circles not finding any waygates, hounded by a Machin Shin that was real rough.

As they are now, the ways don't kill you - user error kills yourself in the ways. Before, they would on occasion literally kill you nothing to be done. Also the no exit room that you could flee into, or walk into on LS because you couldn't see the room name in the dark... oh the good times.

To recap, I prefer the ways now because it's on me if I die, and I use them a lot and have died more then 6 times in them in good sets (all my fault).

vaheed
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:11 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by vaheed » Wed May 05, 2021 7:29 pm

byrg wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:15 pm
Sanguine wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm
As someone who doesn't ever use waygates and doesn't know how to, my only comment is that if we took the approach of not being able to escape through them, it would create more interesting PK, I think. There are plenty of ways to escape back up north or back toward Falme. Leave it to horses or resting moves at troll patties and people's zone knowledge, not some get out of free jail card back to Keep.
I feel like... if you admittedly haven't used them and don't understand how they work, its perhaps a bit unfair to call them a get out of jail free card? Just last week I was chasing someone through them who misspammed and DT'd. I think about a week ago we had a post where someone died from machin emotes... I'd hardly call them risk free or a "get out of jail free card" - as others have stated, it's fairly easy to chase through them, or block the gate, and I've definitely seen people die trying to run away through them - I've died in them several times trying to do exactly that myself.
Most people who use the Ways consistently let their client play for them. There really isn't much risk if you know it's going to work every time.

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