Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Thore
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:06 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Thore » Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:00 pm

I honestly get really confused when players who really like and want more good PK say something like the ways are good. Are they saying the ways are good because it brings them to a place they can find PK? Is Andor PK vs less than stellar PKers good? Weir made an interesting point, though I think often in these kinds of discussions we all fail to think two or three changes down the road that could make the change we're discussing even better.

For instance, if we are talking about way gates being too easy to escape from, and just for the sake of discussion, we would like to remove them, some might say well it's just as easy to escape, it just takes longer. Not 100% true, but pretty true. Well then, why don't we choke up the zones, and remove one or two of the exits, like cut or Rahime? Why don't we force people to go the long way through Maradon/GF, or the short way up TV road? Moves are definitely also something that would need to get adjusted, because you can't just craft 10 vials and spam race through GF. That would be unfair, especially if vials are extremely easy to get and you can carry many of them. All of the good raiders would carry time vials on them before going south.

I think it's very difficult to talk about a single thing being good or bad without taking in the whole context of everything else that relates to it.

Davor
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:38 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Davor » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:09 am

I would love to see rhaime, grasslands, apple tree, and Catalan all removed. Make people take TV road.

Jestin
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:15 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Jestin » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:22 am

Lol if we removed all the zones you don't know we would only have like the north zones, 4k, wb, and that zone near ef where you had to do the quest to get a pristine heron left in the game.

isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by isabel » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:17 am

Sarryn wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:20 pm
It’s more a personal preference to not learn. I haven’t even attempted to learn ways or stones. I find them idiotic for my liking. Are they useful? Sure. To each there own. They seem to be great at transporting groups for easier city hits or whatever. Thus there great for things like fading. Which is a whole other can of worms about the dumb requirements. I think being able to transport a group say Chico. Then hitting parnarch, killing it and being back north before someone can get even remotely close is pure stupidity.

I can’t even fathom how many times within the last year I’ve seen people use ways or portal stones to eject from a bad situation. It’s in the game, it is what it is. I don’t have to like it or think it’s conducive for pk or role play etc. Just my opinion, seems incredibly handheld. I know I can learn it just like the next person. I can chase into ways or a portal stone. I have and had good and bad results. I personally think it’s a utterly dung game mechanic as is. Add no quit to each and I have 0 issues.
Agree with everything else you said but just that it's easier to learn ways than 1 zone nroth of Illian, like litearlly will take you 10 minutes to learn. If something is new but takes forever to learn I get it, but this is a very small thing.

The thing with city head farming - you can't make game stuff around peolpe who are just going to do incredibly boring stuff. (Well imms do it, but they shouldn't). None of the people who farmed their way to remort or w/e are even around afaik, maybe Byrg was one of them idk. They do their thing and push off since obviously they don't like/can't pk, so what does it matter if they're playing some mini-smobby game on the side.

The question is does it promote exciting back and forth pk and the answer is yes with the exception of oldbeis like you and davor who don't want to learn anything new even if it takes 2 mins! It's like not wanting to learn hwo to use a smartphone becuase you're 60 or w/e.

Thore
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:06 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Thore » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:51 am

isabel wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:17 am
Sarryn wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:20 pm
It’s more a personal preference to not learn. I haven’t even attempted to learn ways or stones. I find them idiotic for my liking. Are they useful? Sure. To each there own. They seem to be great at transporting groups for easier city hits or whatever. Thus there great for things like fading. Which is a whole other can of worms about the dumb requirements. I think being able to transport a group say Chico. Then hitting parnarch, killing it and being back north before someone can get even remotely close is pure stupidity.

I can’t even fathom how many times within the last year I’ve seen people use ways or portal stones to eject from a bad situation. It’s in the game, it is what it is. I don’t have to like it or think it’s conducive for pk or role play etc. Just my opinion, seems incredibly handheld. I know I can learn it just like the next person. I can chase into ways or a portal stone. I have and had good and bad results. I personally think it’s a utterly dung game mechanic as is. Add no quit to each and I have 0 issues.
Agree with everything else you said but just that it's easier to learn ways than 1 zone nroth of Illian, like litearlly will take you 10 minutes to learn. If something is new but takes forever to learn I get it, but this is a very small thing.

The thing with city head farming - you can't make game stuff around peolpe who are just going to do incredibly boring stuff. (Well imms do it, but they shouldn't). None of the people who farmed their way to remort or w/e are even around afaik, maybe Byrg was one of them idk. They do their thing and push off since obviously they don't like/can't pk, so what does it matter if they're playing some mini-smobby game on the side.

The question is does it promote exciting back and forth pk and the answer is yes with the exception of oldbeis like you and davor who don't want to learn anything new even if it takes 2 mins! It's like not wanting to learn hwo to use a smartphone becuase you're 60 or w/e.
I don't think it's about the learning. Of course I could learn or he could learn the ways. We just don't want to use them. They're kind of stupid, at least in my mind. What if we had instead of one Waygate to Blight in Caralain, we had two within a few rooms? What if we had three? Four? See where this little thought experiment is going? You know as well as I do that he could learn the ways, and I could too. It just doesn't provide fun gameplay or interaction.

What Davor said is good, though don't remove the zones, just make them unpassable with no quit. No quit is such an important tool, and is probably under utilized. I think mobol can check it, so why not try a monthly change where there are little gates or passages or patrols or something that you need to say something like "Let me through, please." and it checks your no-quit? Might be a wild change. Put it on Waygates "pull leaf" too!

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Elysia » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:08 pm

Thore wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:51 am
What Davor said is good, though don't remove the zones, just make them unpassable with no quit. No quit is such an important tool, and is probably under utilized. I think mobol can check it, so why not try a monthly change where there are little gates or passages or patrols or something that you need to say something like "Let me through, please." and it checks your no-quit? Might be a wild change. Put it on Waygates "pull leaf" too!
I've actually been pondering something different, but similar.

Zones were removed because if the game is too spread out, people will not run into eachother. The times I saw raiders do a loop from EF to Caem, to Tear, Illian, Amador and back, or the other way around, was way too frequent. Sometimes they didn't even see tracks. By forcing almost everything through 4k and Lug, the chances of people running into eachother are greater. Meaning more chance of pk. Or just a friendly hello and seeing that yes, people are in fact out and about.

The alternative I've been pondering, was either opening up zones on a roster. E.g. also filling out the blanks (lots of work) and then opening, say Ebou Dar and Amador-Illian Road, in June, but closing it the rest of the year, unless it's needed for a quest.

Alternatively, reconnect zones, but have a hefty moves penalty when entering, say Amador-Illian Road AND announcing someone passing into those zones, globally. That means that you would be findable if you take the safer, southerly route.

I've been too busy with other stuff though, but yeah. We obviously like the full scope of WoTmud to be around, but it also shouldn't be a Sahara sized sandbox for 20 people.

Thore
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:06 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Thore » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:21 pm

I agree it is healthier for the game for people to move along a line rather than a series of circles or different paths that they could choose. What if we open all the zones back and connections back, but then make it a monthly change to close specific connections to force people in a line. But we changed the line every month and see how it works.

Elysia
Posts: 7908
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Elysia » Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:26 pm

The line TF WB 4k should never close though, so opening anything else is going to take away traffic from there.

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