Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Fermin
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Fermin » Thu May 06, 2021 7:07 pm

I get the 'no quit' = no waygate idea in theory but in reality it would not work the way you think.

For example, think of fighting any ahf'rait that is literally just hiding out until no quit is gone to run to flame north. This is not that fun, and sure you could track them down, but you have to realize for experienced players hiding is not hard. Running is not hard. The hard part is getting another player to want to sit still (try to kill you) long enough for you to kill them.

If trollocs / raiders are immediately giving up and running in ways it typically means that they see no means or avenue for any victory (either too many numbers or not enough gumption).

plando
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:42 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by plando » Thu May 06, 2021 8:23 pm

thank you for coming to my ted talk.

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Sanguine » Thu May 06, 2021 8:50 pm

Haven't read the last three or four replies, but to determine if something is to get out of jail free card, ask yourselves if the best PKs use them to get out of jail when they are really really in trouble and risk of dying. They can run circles around you up cut or TV road or any which way, but if they're actually really about to die, do they go for weight gates? I seriously don't know. Also if you (as a human) have to map them the same boot that you were going to PK in in order to be on an even playing field with the troll who has to map it to go south anyway, that's lame.

Edit: a GOOD, HONORABLE PKer would run cut and die to fleetrap and a door losing Ksword the first week he's returned from years of a hiatus, like me... Thanks Lykan!

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Rig » Thu May 06, 2021 9:18 pm

Do not use waygates. Kills pk. Nuff said.

isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by isabel » Thu May 06, 2021 9:20 pm

Rig wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:18 pm
Do not use waygates. Kills pk. Nuff said.
All false. People on all sides who know them use them extensively. Lots of LS chase into SG. My trolloc routinely dies in/around waygates because I panic and run there because I am low on moves :D

DS rogues might find it a getaway but then they have that for everything.

Rig should learn WG before opining! He is officially a jaded OLDBIE resistant to learning new things :twisted:

PS - Fermin nails it. Fermin > Rig

tekela
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:29 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by tekela » Thu May 06, 2021 10:40 pm

Riurk wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:24 pm
tekela wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:43 pm
Before flames could take trollocs all over the place, I'd say the completely nonsense RP of trollocs entering the Ways without being led by a fade was a playability thing. These days, with how generally hand-held DS has been in every single facet of the game for about a decade, I think the Ways could benefit from the stedding/water room mechanism. SG Waygate would probably need to be moved though.
Seems like it would just encourage more people to play a fade vs play a trolloc, so might backfire. Agree flame is silly with how it is a teleport. I'd like to see fewer teleports outside of Gate and Portal Stones. I lump coaches and Randland boats into this same category of teleport.
I don't really see the issue of fades vs. trollocs as something to balance Waygates around. There are about a billion reasons to play fades over trollocs and there's a point of diminishing returns with the number of fades online. If there's an issue of too many people opting to play their fades, the staff can always look at downing fades instead of upping everything else on DS.

Although if everyone on DS plays fades and is mounted, there might be some interesting precedents that have been set worth revisiting. :lol:

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Sanguine » Thu May 06, 2021 11:01 pm

What if ways took 1 additional tic to get through than the comparable time to reach the other side via horse hopping? E.g. troll takes Caralain-> Blight ways and it takes 5 tics to get through (think Shara? zone down by Maradon/Spine), but you can horse hop the trip in 4 tics (and port/gate even faster, makes gate way cooler for PK!!).

This creates the "double back" strategy where LS has to keep someone Cara ways and send some people North. Move the waygates so this makes more sense (and is safer-ish to camp the Blight end as a human, etc.). Sounds fun to me. If you've ever played DotA All-stars it's like the brush juke.

Edit: Ibzon - while what staff has done with "portals" is convenient for travel with a smaller playerbase, I wonder if a better option would be more consistent horse hop loads. A fast horse hopper will match/beat/maybe only lose by a little vs someone coaching, but at least a troll or warring clan has a chance to spam for them at a choke along the road. Not the case with boats/coaches/stones. Actually a bonus for ways, but I doubt people camp out in them or outside gates just waiting?

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Rig » Fri May 07, 2021 12:15 am

Less eject buttons, less horse loads, remove puke blood flasks.

Detritus
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:22 am

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Detritus » Fri May 07, 2021 1:16 am

Sanguine wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:01 pm
Edit: Ibzon - while what staff has done with "portals" is convenient for travel with a smaller playerbase, I wonder if a better option would be more consistent horse hop loads. A fast horse hopper will match/beat/maybe only lose by a little vs someone coaching, but at least a troll or warring clan has a chance to spam for them at a choke along the road. Not the case with boats/coaches/stones. Actually a bonus for ways, but I doubt people camp out in them or outside gates just waiting?
Hard hard no on more horse loads anywhere other than caemlyn. There's rediculous amount of horse loads everywhere but the most central newbie city hub of the mud that has worthless and hardly any horses. I killed 32 horses last time i toured south on one of my trolloc rogues.
Sanguine wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:48 am
Wow, I love this discussion! I see where Det is coming from, but what if instead we made the ways EASIER to navigate, so that anyone with a map could do it very easily, and it gave people the courage to chase into the ways. And then you create a different mechanic, like life loss on each room similar to inky cloaks, or random chance to be engaged by Machine Shin (giving chasers a chance to catch up), and maybe rethink the DTs, and then you have a system that everyone can use, that promotes PK, and create some fun fights and stories! I've been playing for 20 years and I haven't taken the time to learn the ways. If they were mapped, and the mechanics fairly known, I would not hesitate to use them.
They are completely mapped and mechanics very known. They're also very not dangerous.
You could machin every room quite happily.

I'll be interested to see how the month of mounted ways goes.

Sanguine
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Discussion - Waygates and Noquit

Post by Sanguine » Fri May 07, 2021 6:57 am

Horseload comment was dangerous of me, I agree. On Discord I wondered what more horseloads + a timer to ride a new horse would look like. Gotta tiptoe around horse changes, I agree. More mobility = good, but can't just give LS more free moves, I agree.

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