Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by isabel » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:39 am

I had a Lot of fun playing SS briefly sometime last year - in case it helps ideate, these were the reasons

disclaimer: i don't have any clanned ss / never played the side before / have almost exclusively played ls-Npk

1) easy to find pk and easy to figure out there isn't pk so you can save time and log off - so overall less frustration from waiting around / now knowing if there's pk or not etc. I felt I had more choice in what kind of pk i was getting into too - like do i want to go up against a channie, or stabber etc. Compared to ds pk uncertainty (whatever uncertainty there is after all these years :)) so this added a different playing dimension.

2) the pk you find is usually with people who also want to pk and hence who are somewhat invested in back and forth pk -
overall, the pk experience was good and i felt like i was actually logging on to play a game where you win or lose but overall have a fun experience. often with ds/ls pk at that time it ended with people complaining about how the other side played, so this was refreshing and nice.

3) the roleplay was a lot of fun - almost all the pk was preceded by some RP which is again a missing dimension in DS pk mostly. It made for a fun change that you could be having this RP conversation while fighting.

4) x-race helping people out - there were some occasions where people were super helpful, like re-equing an ss lowbie, or helping out an LS statter etc, or else walking away after almost killing a very inexperienced player after some RP etc, just some variations that were fun and different from the usual N-pk stuff, and it added a slight storytelling aspect

5) More team-play.. at that time I had a couple of friends who were also interested in SS. It didn't work out so much because of time zone, but it was fun for the times it did. LS has all these factions so that feeling of unity isn't really there. Also unlike with DS we felt free to vary our RP - like not kill a zerk xper and instead try to show them how we're a great side they should join :lol:

6) sometimes it was like you log on and LS group is doing city head - not much you can do but log off really, but it didn't feel exactly hopeless. More like 'we need to recruit people'

overall - I felt like SS had a more friendly/chilled out and also RP orientation that I liked

THAT SAID, what wasn't working or could be changed

1) Apparently there was a group of SS running around who were basically giving SS a bad name by killing statters or some such. I think stronger RP standards (set by oldbie SS) for SS would be great. DS is already free to kill anyone, so SS could be a variation where you do kill LS, but you have to roleplay around it. (No one can force RP of course, but w/e - that would be an alternative). I can't recall the number of times my friends on ls/ds laughed at me for trying out SS because of those players - it became a real disincentive for newer/other players too to try out.

2) Some kind of auto-clanning process via quests like with dragonsworn for a more basic clan would be nice I think, with the option to be grandmothered (!) into a more bonused or w/e clan once you get to high rank (at the same rank) - I spent a lot of time playing with one SS oldbie who quit the game, and after that was just kind of floating around.

3) Some kind of a challenger thing that promotes low number pk - maybe kind of like blademaster arena with up to 3 players on either side (1v1, 2v2, 2v3, or 1v3 etc)

4) The boats (to'raken) were so great - whoever had written them, all the emotes etc were really good. Combined with the waygate, it was really nice to get to north pk. But I think a little bit of mob support up north would have been nice. Eol had suggested a ctf around west of moldy that door that no one uses - something an ss player could maybe solo clear and flip

5) Speaking of solo stuff, maybe a couple of chargeable smobs would be nice (besides singer).

6) I had no idea about where to do the stuff I do on LS like what can a solo person clear, or where to craft a weapon etc ..any mini quests etc. More of these and/or a kind of SS FAQ pinned to help forums would be good.

Of all this if I had to pick just 1 thing to change though, it would be the roleplay. If we have a strong roleplay side that also pks xrace, then I think you would get a lot of interest and that would address the numbers thing (whatever numbers are there on wotmud :)

just my 2 cents from my limited mid-tier playing experience of a few months in 2020

p.s - i forgot to mention the zones. some of the zones seemed kind of endless (admittedly i play without maps so there's that) - like to go from north road to that arad doman bridge area, you basically followt he road at the top edge with some curves - again apologies because i have no idea what used to happen there, but when i look at the wiki map there seemst o be a Lot of rooms below it but are they used? ( no idea, genuine question) - so it just felt like a 3-zone walk each way with nothing to stop there for. if they are pk zones or w/e maybe something could be added there so people hang around and end up playing there?

Draz
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Draz » Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:52 am

I like Isabels post and agree on the positives, Kryzens also.

Gotta say when I did play my SS there was a period where there were regularly 3-4 others around and I really enjoyed it. We also farmed some LS stuff (that was promptly coded to firetruck us over when we did but thats another story).

There was then a significantly long period where I would see a couple SS on, ask if they wanted me to alt, and they pretty much were always wrapping up, I think that was timezones etc.

Ah - one thing I really want to do and endeavour towards, and think the mud would benefit from is (and would require significant imm participation)

One day a month mobraid day - mobs can actually load nice items - generally balanced to either be available to all sides or those that are on.
A request on the mob raids - pls no multiple channeling mobs in one room. Just.. for all mob raids, ever.

Two days a week (prob diff time periods each) seanchan day. If I know I'm logging my SS on Tuesday then I'm logging my SS on Tuesday (or logging my LS, seeing SS on, and alting). I've been asking the same for Defenders and for Dragonsworn, and.. I just don't think it'll happen unless an imm says - you know what? Lets give this a try - if you're on and roleplaying next Tuesday - mobs may start talking. Particularly for SS a very small qp reward for RP or helpfulness (god remember how helpful the side was?) could be incentive. I'll literally log on to shoot the dung without any expectation of reward, if people are going to be on having fun.

Jael
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:12 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Jael » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:41 pm

What about removing/reducing the 5/20 rule from alting from LS to SS, but not in reverse.

Vampa
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Vampa » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:45 pm

It is 5 minutes between ls and ss now.

Jael
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:12 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Jael » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:46 pm

Shows what I know these days. Ha. ILY

Rig
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Rig » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:48 am

Jael wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:46 pm
Shows what I know these days. Ha. ILY
Zac. Come home to me. I fuckin love you.

Yeri
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 4:26 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Yeri » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:05 pm

I think with SS, you have to think about it as if it were CoL, and ask what you'd do to revive interest in CoL. Unless a lot has changed in my absence, both:

- Are wanted and hunted by important factions in Lightside (for SS, this is basically everyone)
- Can either sameside or kill DS, but due to grouping restrictions are either solo or have to rely on member from their 'group' rather than members from the side at large
- Are sustained primarily by surges of interest led by particular players and then die back down

I'm not sure that SS is worth investing in more than you would for any particular clan, but I think one of the first steps needs to be to make it less isolated and more integrated with LS. Probably have to speed the game-world up a few books or something, honestly. Politics and treaties didn't work because almost every clan defaulted to 'invading army == evil == warrant and attack on sight', and it was basically the same as when SS were purple.

So, my list:

- Re-integrate, forcefully, SS into the LS clan atmosphere. They're clans that are in the LS sphere, are allied against DS, and can group against DS.
- Outside of the north, expect distrust but not attacks. Again, this is where you'll probably have to bend RP to fit the game - any clan that goes against the Tower can expect to be on its own in PK, and that leads to isolated clans that have to be self-reliant to survive (and if only 1-2 people are active from that clan, won't be able to do anything).
- Deal with torms/raken/DW horses aggroing on everyone and everything so it's less of a problem in north PK
- Nix the sameside stuff. If you want to kill people, go be BT or CoL or something, we've got enough of those.
- Goal is to make SS more or less LS mechanically, but with some exotic creature flavor. And from the Imm level, enforcing an end-of-MoL type of political relations. Can't have half the world deciding they're evil anyway and starting dung.

If you want to keep it purple, you'd probably have to solve harder problems:
- Add DS-level smobbing/exp on Seandar or in very safe areas. Probably Seandar, it's a lot more accessible than it used to be. But yeah, make it stupid and make it safe.
- Figure out globals and wholist. It's really hard to surprise anyone when they can see you on the wholist, watch for certain names, and also hear exactly what you're saying when you're crit.
- Somehow solve numbers issues - if there are 2 SS on, what can they do? DS has a lot of DS-only or DS-heavy players, SS lost most of them to other sides. And as others mentioned, having 8 people on SS means the other sides are likely weak.
- In other words, how do you balance a side that has 2-4 people on at any particular time, outside of organized logins? You probably can't easily.

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Rig » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:37 pm

Let us lay it out as simple as possible.

There are three sides, all in opposition against each other. These are Seanchan, Dark Side, Light side. We have at best most days around 25-35 players on at the same time.

In such a small numbered atmosphere, I don’t see how we keep coming back to the same conclusion that it’s sustainable to have three sides. As others have said, the only time you see many more than one or two Seanchan is on other players just being curious, playing with some friends, then getting bored and moving on back to DS/LS. It’s just not sustainable to keep three sides ongoing against each other.

So, as I have said before and will say again, delete Seanchan. It’s a waste of resources and time. When I say delete seanchan, I mean remove the opposing side. There’s no reason we can’t keep the clans, and homelands, and integrate into LS. The politics are dumb, as Yeri said, everyone immediately says ‘danger danger seanchan scum invader #rp warrant,’ and gets away with it. Move it up a bit. Obviously they’ll be at odds with the Tower almost always, but in all honesty Tower rp is really dung for just about everyone. So is CoL/SS/BT rp. It’s just a bunch of fuckin degens flexing their ‘power’ on each other and everyone else.

Let Tower and Seanchan Clans bitch and moan, keep it at an alliance with everyone else. Delete Seanchan. Skids.

Jaster
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by Jaster » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:57 pm

The wotmud cat with 9 lives at it again. Seanchan on life 7?

micha
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 8:54 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Seanchan Race

Post by micha » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:20 am

the positives:

1. we have robust cities and cool rp, the clans are epic.

2. we have good mobility with boats and rakens

3. td is a great outpost near an important central spot on the map.


the negatives:

1. We're constantly fighting someone smobbing or inside a human city. that's 95% of pk in 2020-2021. It's tough. My SS rogue is almost r6 and if you look on his trophy, almost every single kill has come from preying on those inside Tar Valon. Even secret clans don't have to do that.. There's not a Black Talon with that many Thiefbane scalps on their trophy in the history of Black Talon. so that's a problem. It shouldn't be that difficult to procure pk and or progress your character.

2. character progression, the clans aren't active so there's a shortage of clan quests internally and see my point about pk above. It's just hard to come by. Back in the day, you could rack up 25 qps in a night but, sometimes I'll go weeks at a time without a stab/kill with recent changes, mud population, and other factors at play.

3. mob support. We just don't have enough of it in key areas. If we had a TD near shady, similiar to the way camp is designed for DS, and a raken to ride from TD to the borderlands, you'd see a lot more ss pking a lot more regularly. I think we need this. We have mob support in the south, but the north where the last little bit of pk is left, is where we need it most.

4. sw pk is dead. I'm sorry but it's virtually nonexistent. It's not that we don't have enough players to support it, we just don't have enough players interested in fighting ss unless it's super convenient to kill one of us. That's not good. So that's why we need mob support up north so we can fight trollocs who actually want to fight.

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