Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

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Aureus
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Aureus » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:37 pm

Ibzon wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:17 pm
I'm also thankful for having wonderful active immortals who are invested in the game.

Could someone help us understand why the staff feels like these changes are needed? Cause I also don't see the benefit of changing weapons that everyone was happy with ...
I gave some of the reasoning in the original post. Basically to address issues with stat creep on weapons and dodge that had gotten dodge to a point where it was either great or terrible, depending on whether we balanced around rares or non-rare high end dodge. And many weapons would have great chances vs one end of the spectrum, but be completely unable to bash the other. And, at the same time, to add a bit more identity to weapons.

Aureus
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Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Aureus » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:37 pm

Axes and Long Blades are live.

Davor
Posts: 417
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Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Davor » Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:33 pm

I think the problem is there is too much happening at once. Warriors were changed. Warriors are your target abs class. You can't change their defensive capabilities as well as change their offensive at the same time. We removed berserk attack which was a huge part of a damage problem. So you nerfed them there...now you're nerfing their weapons. But then we made them super tanky...then we decreased that. Its just too much meddling without actual knowledge of its effects. If you continue to do this (as we appear to keep doing) you will have no idea what the true effect of any change is and you're now just making changes just because we finally can. Never a good idea.

As for class identity, I thought it was better than ever before. Silver plateds, brass hilteds, bone clubs, polearms, 1h axes were all quite frequently used for combo. Abs was and always will be axes or clubs with a smattering of polearms. That's just from a pretty active PKer. You may have better knowledge of what Smobbers use. Changing this seems pointless given our current numbers and just seems like its being approached too heavy handed.

We need to accept a few things. The general player is using FAR better gear than ever before in the history of WoTMUD. I will give away a full set of abs and an e-axe to a complete newbie daily, or there are 10 sets sitting in Malkier rack. Good gear is BEYOND abundant with the crazy amounts of storage, the insane amounts of easy smobs, clan chests etc.

The best move, in my opinion, would have been to eliminate 90% of the trash that is never used. Honestly, like someone posted earlier, if you think the problem is balancing around rares/uniques then do the smartest thing...make them MARGINALLY better. I.e. a heron long can have 1ob and 1 pb more than a brass hilted. Trust me, they are still going to go to Jaster and hes still going to kill you all. Then start tweaking, slowly and methodically, one CLASS at a time. All the two handed abs weapons. Then see whats what. Then all the 1h combo weapons. Then the weapons with secondary damage like charging, stabbing, projectiles. It seems like things were arbitrarily adjusted...and it has to have been, there can be no reason or explanation for any of the changes.

Anyways, if this makes some people happy go for it, but I probably think its likely folly.

And lastly! We are adjusting all of this mere mortal dung while channeler damage and targeting is way out of whack and has not been changed in forever. We are playing in a time with more channelers than ever! They all suck but still, it’s the most forgiving class, why do you think Jestin was able to make a name for himself.

byrg
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Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by byrg » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:30 pm

I uh, agree with Davor. That feels weird. Seriously been trying to come up with wording to basically those exact thoughts though, well said.

Angri
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Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Angri » Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:31 am

Tested dodge with Nexen (146db 219 pb!) and some others; bash landing seemed ok but actually hitting him was problematic at best. 1v1 against a master sblader or even just a decent db non-master will be a lesson in futility. Couple this vs a FC, who if not using chill is not doing things right now, is also a waste of time - I can even see some FC's even meleeing absers in no-chans to death. A dodge troll vs a mounted basher is also a bad idea.
Bash was always a shaky skill in any 1v1, but now it's just not worth the risk/reward. Sticking to group pk seems like the only recourse left, sadly. Or some new level of douchebaggery.
Maybe things will change and I hope they will, but I am not holding out much faith based on what has currently been released.

zeek
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:46 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by zeek » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:20 am

Davor wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:33 pm
And lastly! We are adjusting all of this mere mortal dung while channeler damage and targeting is way out of whack and has not been changed in forever. We are playing in a time with more channelers than ever! They all suck but still, it’s the most forgiving class, why do you think Jestin was able to make a name for himself.
I would assume this is a coding issue, the channeling.

With a playerbase as small as ours, why don't we release polls that everyone in the game can vote on, and then we focus on those items in that order, based on ability/resources (i.e. coders, time, etc)?

Seems like a win/win. The staff develop in the playerbase's best interest, powered by the players.. and the players get to enjoy the game and see their ideas come to fruition. Isnt' that healthy?

Sanguine
Posts: 351
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Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Sanguine » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:15 am

Angri wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:31 am
Tested dodge with Nexen (146db 219 pb!) and some others; bash landing seemed ok but actually hitting him was problematic at best. 1v1 against a master sblader or even just a decent db non-master will be a lesson in futility. Couple this vs a FC, who if not using chill is not doing things right now, is also a waste of time - I can even see some FC's even meleeing absers in no-chans to death. A dodge troll vs a mounted basher is also a bad idea.
Bash was always a shaky skill in any 1v1, but now it's just not worth the risk/reward. Sticking to group pk seems like the only recourse left, sadly. Or some new level of douchebaggery.
Maybe things will change and I hope they will, but I am not holding out much faith based on what has currently been released.
Was that berserk? How would an abs-er beat a dodge player 1v1 before? I thought dodge should definitely have the upper hand 1v1? Would mobs split party enough that the bashes would end up damaging them?

Rig
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Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Rig » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:49 pm

Hi Sanguine. You are entirely correct.

Let me learn all of you newbs who don’t understand pk and or how dodge works. Fighting dodge sblader/channie 1v1, you are almost always going to lose off of mobs. This being because of the fact that they have very high defense and a lot of the time high damage output. Crazy right?

So now let’s talk about these changes to dodge that seem very overpowered and futile. We actually removed db! Very interesting. We removed abs! We’ve also attested to it being easier to land bashes, also interesting. Now what we have also done is increase parry. This is actually the worst thing to happen for people who play dodge.

Parry splits, based on how many opponents you’re fighting. Dodge does not. Max engage is also, partially dependent on DB. Weapons now do a monumental fuckton more damage now. So the trick, my clucky ducks, is to not sit in one room against someone playing dodge and just die to then. Learn to split parry, it’s very easy.

It’s very beneficial to learn how wolves/shivs/soldiers/trolloc/ancients (just to name a few) work in helping you in pk. It’s actually crazy to me that we are complaining about what is a major downing to a certain play style. It’s going to be a much easier time killing people now that are in dodge. Honestly anyone who plays dodge should be just wearing parry eq.

Davor
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:38 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Davor » Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:59 pm

I guess I never thought dodge was overpowered. It was perfectly balanced in my opinion because it was good damage output (stab/FC) within a glass cannon. The rare exceptions were the people with perfect kits...but even they went boom with a wicked axe or a combo weapon as well as random abs weapons. If anything dodge needed to be upped.

The other thing you are all failing to understand is...there can be no balance around a 1v1. 1v1 does not define anything. It's an overall global effect you need to keep in mind and that just comes from years and years of playing. I never play dodge except on a channeler so you can go ahead and assume it is not overpowered.

Aureus
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Aureus » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:34 pm


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