Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

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Akzak
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:45 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Akzak » Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:20 pm

I personally don't think we have a huge problem here and In my professional life I have learnt the hard way that if you make a bad call on something fix it before you continue to tweak otherwise you land up with a cascade of changes where you made decisions on changing principles or foundations. If it was me I would say the warrior experiment didn't work. revert back to what we had and if we think warrior attack is too powerful tweak the % chance of attack going through down a little. See how things land and then decide if you need to up dodge a little.

The thing that kept bringing me back to play the mud was how easy it was to die and the feeling that the odds could change in a moment.

In short admit when an experiment didn't work, revert back to first principles and as my boss always used to say KISS (Keep it simple stupid).

Kryyg
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Kryyg » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:41 pm

Dodge is not broken. The damage output has just been insane since everyone on DS has attack along with 21 str and weapons doing more damage.

If you get bashed with 3-4 people on you, and you're dodge, that should hurt a lot. Zarth went into the various situations of dodge and it is optimized for two perfect set ups. Stab and channelers. High damage output characters who are essentially glass cannons. If you want to play it as anything else well then stfu and eat your damage when you get bashed. Like Zarth said, once you have decided to leave in a 1v1, nwih you're dying.

Also agree with Zarth that you can't have an abs weapon be good at just 1 thing. By definition combo weapons are good at two things. The first automatically is defense. Abs has to be a combination of two things.

Agree and disagree with Jaster/Rig regarding uniques. I agree they shouldn't be downed any further. Disagree that people don't use them because they are downed. They would be just as scared as losing them with or without the stats.

Also, to what Jaster said regarding these changes. The sweeping changes should probably stop or at least be implemented cautiously and in almost weekend only test mode. I.e. this warrior change complete turned the MUDs entire playstyle around 360 degrees. How the decision has been made to continue it seems insanity and self-defeating. It should be removed and re-evaluated. Not kept for 30 days or 60 days or whatever arbitrary rule is set. You're just alienating players who will move on.

Vampa
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Vampa » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:59 pm

Kryyg wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:41 pm
Dodge is not broken. The damage output has just been insane since everyone on DS has attack along with 21 str and weapons doing more damage.

If you get bashed with 3-4 people on you, and you're dodge, that should hurt a lot. Zarth went into the various situations of dodge and it is optimized for two perfect set ups. Stab and channelers. High damage output characters who are essentially glass cannons. If you want to play it as anything else well then stfu and eat your damage when you get bashed. Like Zarth said, once you have decided to leave in a 1v1, nwih you're dying.

Also agree with Zarth that you can't have an abs weapon be good at just 1 thing. By definition combo weapons are good at two things. The first automatically is defense. Abs has to be a combination of two things.

Agree and disagree with Jaster/Rig regarding uniques. I agree they shouldn't be downed any further. Disagree that people don't use them because they are downed. They would be just as scared as losing them with or without the stats.

Also, to what Jaster said regarding these changes. The sweeping changes should probably stop or at least be implemented cautiously and in almost weekend only test mode. I.e. this warrior change complete turned the MUDs entire playstyle around 360 degrees. How the decision has been made to continue it seems insanity and self-defeating. It should be removed and re-evaluated. Not kept for 30 days or 60 days or whatever arbitrary rule is set. You're just alienating players who will move on.
No predetermined time frame, we'd have updated it in a day if we were able. It will be updated this month, though, maybe even this week. Some things are outside of our control.

Rig
Posts: 2226
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Rig » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:50 am

Shut up Kryyg, stop acknowledging the fuckin stupid damage increase over the last 5 years on weapons.

Mhaliah
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Mhaliah » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:46 am

I think a scale back across the board would not be bad. As is a natural progression with games we have seen creep over the decades. Weapons hitting/ bashing harder or being more and more defensive, max dodge getting higher, abs getting to 87%.

I was a late comer to the game and have really only played abs significantly.

It is hard to see things trimmed back, but it will be good for the game. People invest a lot in the game, and it sucks when a change makes that investment not pay off or just vanish. When I feel like something is being taken from me in game I remember all those FC uber statters who spent months real time statting... and then the HP cap was implemented. That was a big loss on investment, but FCs are definitely still great in PK. If ya keep playing things will work out.


Also...



Rig
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Contact:

Are you JESUS adjacent or nucleic?

Nunzio
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:47 am
Location: USA, Virginia

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Nunzio » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:02 am

I'm just going to throw this out there, but has anyone ever considered having weapons (heavy, blunt ones) that do more damage to abs? I know it hasn't been discussed, but it would definitely help differentiate a class of weapons.

zankou
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:17 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by zankou » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:25 pm

I personally think the game was quite balanced before, and the only changes from the way it was a few months ago would be 1. Remove mounted OB, 2. Remove 21 str , 3. Fcs can only weave on who they are engaged on, 4. Keep serk attack but make it non prac dependent and proc maybe 25%.

Neveyan
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:43 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Neveyan » Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:57 pm

Julen wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:14 pm
I have a few points of feedback to add that a few others have also touched on, but I mostly wanted to express my excitement and appreciation for all the changes that are happening lately 😊 Even where I disagree with the changes, I’m extremely happy that volunteers are putting in the effort to improve a 27 year old game purely because they love it,

Detritus
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:22 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Detritus » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:47 pm

zankou wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:25 pm
I personally think the game was quite balanced before, and the only changes from the way it was a few months ago would be 1. Remove mounted OB, 2. Remove 21 str , 3. Fcs can only weave on who they are engaged on, 4. Keep serk attack but make it non prac dependent and proc maybe 25%.
I basically disagree with everyone one of these points, with a rider on the last point. Zerk attack is a viable option to use but it should go off less and be more prac dependant not less.

Power creep across the board is not related to the mounted obs vs 21 str (which is fairly balanced now with high availability of str potions).
FCs cannot go toe to toe with some characters, avoiding buffing people that are going to wreck you is a big part of playing channeler with capped HPs. (even more so if have any sort of zerk attack back)

Before any raft of changes and rebalancing i would have just dropped base(non weapon) obs of everyone at lvl30 by 5.
Vampa wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:59 pm
No predetermined time frame, we'd have updated it in a day if we were able. It will be updated this month, though, maybe even this week. Some things are outside of our control.
Did someone green light these changes in first place or is it just flash by himself?
Warrior changes and screwing forums is like someone is trying to deliberately sabotage mud.

isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by isabel » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:59 am

good to see that imms are talking to players, even if it's taken a while :P but i think that pretty much everyone can/will weigh in (as happens on forums) whereas only some players truly understand game balance and see the bigger picture. why not set up a core committee to advise imms? they may not get it 100% right either, but I think the rightness % will be much higher and you can have a more meaningful conversation.

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