Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

[Taziar]

Any updates on time frame?

[Madin]

If a major part of the issue is that there's so many different weapons to have to balance, would it be such a bad idea to just minimize the number of variations, so that what the weapon is called is just flavor.

By this I mean something similar to:
ABS 2 hander stats are the same across tiers for axe, sword, polearm, club, etc.
DEF 2 hander would be the same across all weapon types
1 handed offense would be the same across all weapon types
1 handed defense would be the same across all weapon types

And then you could figure out weapons with secondary abilities like charge, stab, throw, and multihit.

This doesn't mean everything is exactly the same. You could have several tier 1 weapons, one higher ob, one higher dmg, one higher weight, it would just be the same options for each weapon type.

[Aureus]

Short blades and javelins live. I will share stats later — need to step away from my laptop for a bit. (Enjoy the temporary FOFY throwback!)

[Taziar]

I would first like to start with a warning: DO NOT change mob only weapons and equipment.

By changing the lower tier “mob-only” weapons and equipment you are going to unbalance the game worse than the warrior mitigation did if you follow the pattern you have started with the short blades and javelins changes. These weapons have not been changed in the last three weapon balances over the last 10+ years for very good reason.

Second I am questioning the Javelin class changes. There are only two javelins that anyone has used in the last decade: pine and dark oak. The long, barbed javelin would be the next closest choice for a player but the pine javelin out classed it in every way so it never got any use. Even as a thrown weapon the 3d6 base damage of the weapon and the 2.5 lbs weight made it a poor choice in comparison.

Raising the offensive bonus at the expense of parry bonus for the class essentially renders the javelin class obsolete. Fencing blades are now a better choice in all ways in comparison to javelins for melee. Projectiles weigh less and are faster so you can carry more. And now we are back to short blades being the best attack/parry bonus combo?? This was downed over the last couple weapon changes for a reason.

Comparing short blades to javelins AS stabbing weapons does not equate because of the prac cost differences between warrior and rogue skills. The majority of players use short blades for stabbing, there is very little reason to use a javelin unless you are doing an unconventional build. So for the act of stabbing only, short blades should be taken into consideration, there is not an equal option to use either class. Javelins stab more as an afterthought.

[dager]

Dark Oak Javelin
- damage stayed the same(bad)
- lost 5pb(only reason to use it)
- gained 8obs (which was bad to start with)

Long Pine Javelin
- damage average slightly went up, switched from 4d5 (12 average) to very consistant 9d2(13.5average) which is lower than every single used dagger.
- lost 22 pb (main reason to use it)
- gained 8 obs (which was bad to start with)

So javelins are now worse in every single way than short blades.

[Kryyg]

I don’t understand the changes or who is making them and what information they are utilizing to make the decisions based on. I quickly reviewed the changes and compared them to old and was contemplating starting to use javelins again but as above - they are even more useless than sblades. Sblades just seem to have a wider fluctuation of damage ranges with minimal increases to PB for a few. Feedback for these currently implemented changes: colossal waste of time. Change for the sake of change has never been worthwhile and that’s what I feel these changes are aimed for.

Please read Madins post above. For the current game, his recommendations are spot on. Save immortal time and use it towards more useful things than arbitrary changes because someone wants a project. The players never complained about a variety of weapons - it’s already too many and frankly at its best in terms of balance.

[arston]

I think what was done with the daggers and stab was a good change in combination with the master stab damage change. Before, a master stab was insanely overpowered, and a non-master stab was not even worth rolling. So yes i think there WAS a need for change there. the slightly higher damage with more variability means that it still has a chance to pay off well for masters and non-masters, just a much smaller chance of blicking in one shot. The level it is at with the changes is high enough to make a difference and be worth using, but not so high or reliable enough to ruin pk. So between the two changes combined (master stab applying after stab multiplier and changes to short blades), I think a very nice balance was made (except for the fact that jade daggers and curved clear are both better in every way than basilards depending on if you want steady damage output or higher dispersion- I would probably up basilard in some way since its technically a rare).

That being said, javelins are terrible. They don't deal enough damage to stab with, and they weigh too much to use for throwing (and cost too much on top of that). Literally the only reason to use them was if you were willing to accept garbage output in order to have high defense and now you cant even get that.

[Rig]

Jade daggers are horrible. Only someone insanely touched is going to use 1d28 lol

[arston]

are you kidding that sounds awesome means a stab could do anywhere from 10 damage to 420 damage not even counting honing or master damage. kinda funny how you could possibly land a stab for 10 damage then follow up with a regular hit while trying to flee that does 28

[Jaster]

The irony in “balancing” weapons is introducing 1d28. If that doesn’t show the disconnect, I’m not sure what else will.