Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Skurk
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Skurk » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:20 pm

Jaster wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:54 am
post
I agree with basically everything you said, very important to remember that stats/eq doesnt make the player.

I do think though that you missed one aspect - that this isn't baseball. The difference in baseball is, getting a homerun doesnt make you faster or hit further next time, while getting rares in wotmud makes you harder to kill and more able to kill.
You're correct in saying good players die less, kill more and will do that regardless of what's happening with EQ. They're better, faster, understand the game deeper etc. So they find it easier to get rares - but thats the point.

If high level players are more likely to have rares (due to dying less, and killing more) then the stronger rares are, the more it benefits high end players. Whether or not that's good, let you argue that one, but what's clear is that as rares get stronger it gets better for higher level players who can easily aquire rares.`

edit lol tekela said it all better than I could
Last edited by Skurk on Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tekela
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:29 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by tekela » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:22 pm

Jaster wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:54 am
There is a reason Rig is getting better at wotmud and will continue to improve. He understands that to a certain point stats, eq, bonuses, or any other excuse don’t matter . You as a player need to get more knowledgeable, make quicker decisions, not rely on maps, scripts, macros, or god else knows.
I more or less agree with this, but at the same time, if being a better player means you have quicker/easier access to corked bats, there's definitely a point where the corked bat is the issue. It's sort of disingenuous for any of us to sit there hoarding herons or DSTs for years and then claiming equipment doesn't matter -- it does to that certain point you mentioned, which is arguably beyond what it needs to be. One (of the very few) things I like about this change is that it's been kind of flattening the gap between good and great weapons -- albeit, sometimes in the wrong direction.

That being said, and I'm stretching to make this sidebar of "good players are good" relevant to the conversation about ABS, it's more reason to normalize balance between different playstyles -- a dude working with the downside of ABS should be at least matching or exceeding the offensive output of a dude working with the upsides of defense.

The rest of it is, obviously, based on skill -- which is probably why Zarth thinks ABS/E-axes wasn't very powerful relative to the times back in the day. Right now, no matter how good the player, ABS is lagging behind, which is the problem. "Good" players have addressed the problem by generally avoiding the set-up completely.

TL;DR - Up ABS weapons, down abs % back to 82%.

Zangief
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:17 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Zangief » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:36 pm

Skurk wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:20 pm
while getting rares in wotmud makes you harder to kill
I’ll have to disagree with this, with plenty of evidence to back it.

Another point I’ll make while I’m posting is that everyone has access to these craftable rares and top end sets now. Just takes some time to farm/trade for the ingredients. With all of this eq accessible to everyone, people choose to keep it in rents or trade it as some form of currency. Interview some people asking why they don’t wear their nice stuff and you will find answers like they are waiting for that next rank, or master, or some milestone. Or they will just straight up tell you they don’t want to lose the nice eq their first pk session.

Skurk
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Skurk » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:46 pm

Zangief wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:36 pm
Skurk wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:20 pm
while getting rares in wotmud makes you harder to kill
I’ll have to disagree with this, with plenty of evidence to back it.

Another point I’ll make while I’m posting is that everyone has access to these craftable rares and top end sets now. Just takes some time to farm/trade for the ingredients. With all of this eq accessible, people choose to keep it in rents or trade it as some form of currency. Interview some people asking why they don’t wear their nice stuff and you will find answers like they are waiting for that next rank, or master, or some milestone. Or they will just straight up tell you they don’t want to lose the nice eq their first pk session.
About your disagreement... I'm actually curious here - unless you're talking mindset while wearing rares or other peoples motivation to kill you, then I'd very much like to know what you mean? Having higher defence, more damage or other random bonuses (noloc/foxhead) seems to me to be only beneficial.

Second point is time sink to reward. Sure you can choose to farm/grind those rares, but if you aren't very good yet - you wont be able to use the benefits they give you and someone better will just take them cause, like jaster pointed out, they can play around the difference in stats/skill and kill you anyway. Not only that but by grinding for them you're spending your limited time to play a video game grinding to get equipment (which doesnt make you better) instead of pking and improving. Seems silly to even try for rares unless you're good enough to actually benefit from using them.

Sarryn
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Sarryn » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:03 pm

Jaster and Rig got it right pretty much. No matter what you do there gonna still outclass you. The gear doesn’t really matter. There simply just better players. They’ve dedicated themselves fully to learning the ins and outs of wotmud. So downing gear weapons won’t affect them. There going to get whatever is best in game. And get it pretty easy. I’m not saying it’s all the player. There links are sick. They have fades, channies, warders and the like. As much as it’s downplayed by those who own the special chars. I know how ez mode a gaidin is in good hands.

That’s the breaks though. You can get them too. Just gonna take you a lot more effort and time probably. Because your probably some variation of the following, lazy, not committed, not enough time to play, link is dung, unwilling to learn new things, to practice and die tons in pk to learn, no inside friends to help. Ladder pulling, and silly hard to get in some clans yet. If not hard at the very least tedious and extremely time consuming. Few people have the drive to sit around months on an unclanned char to get into a game with a general max of 20-40 players left and often lower. We’ve shot our self’s in the foot long ago there. Most of the problems in wotmud have been caused by wotmud or the players. No changes in the past, dung attitudes, terrible players who throttle clans and are utter cancers to the game etc.

This is life at wotmud. You either hold them or you fold them. I’ve personally chose to hold them. I’m lazy as fk and can’t be arsed to get any cool chars other then a master. But I do more than fine. My storage would make you throw up. (Often to lazy to use it, and honestly I don’t mind challenges of regearing from nothing) Also just to touch base on some comments. Your much likelier to get some unfun pk in nice stuff. People do hunt it, myself included. Making rares harder to get or downing them means nothing. I get rares daily. And I don’t even have a fade to just take things constantly through funneling to the top. It’s just how it is for some of us. We’ve put forth crazy amounts of time to the game. Been here nearly 20 years.

All that said, abs has only been upped in my time here. What’s so different now that makes it obsolete. I still see good players use it effectively. If you don’t know the ins and outs of it and the game your gonna struggle even more in abs imo. Your taking constant damage. That being said it’s there for a reason. It’s easy to acquire. Once you guys learn how to use things to your advantage maybe you will see it’s niche. Make abs 86% standard all top items. Make it more durable so less decay % and degrade. Add plus 5 ob to ALL top tier abs weapons. See how that works out.

Again abs has its place. We all start somewhere here. We all have died endlessly. I remember I died constantly north on Tadr. I studied my deaths, the game, and got a better link. Then I started doing the killing. Now look at me still dung years later but hanging in there ;)
Last edited by Sarryn on Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scrat
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:07 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Scrat » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:22 pm

Sarryn wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:03 pm
All that said, abs has only been upped in my time here. What’s so different now that makes it obsolete. I still see good players use it effectively. If you don’t know the ins and outs of it and the game your gonna struggle even more in abs imo. Your taking constant damage. That being said it’s there for a reason. It’s easy to acquire. Once you guys learn how to use things to your advantage maybe you will see it’s niche. Make abs 86% standard all top items. Make it more durable so less decay % and degrade. Add plus 5 ob to ALL top tier abs weapons. See how that works out.
I think the bolded part is actually a pretty huge thing that could be done to help ABS. Just make it so you aren't losing multiple % in a single PK session by upping the durability and you give just a little back to ABS. It doesn't change the ceiling by making abs overall harder to kill, just makes it maintain some of its strength over time.

I don't see it impacting the overall quantity of gear that badly for it to not decay as fast when plenty of ABS gets eaten by boots, etc., just sitting in barrels.

Rig
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Rig » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:24 pm

The other part to my point that i'm trying to make is that all of the weapons are pretty similar right now, including rares, in terms of damage/defense. Lowering them even more isn't going to do anything at all. Right now, compared to how it used to be, the gap between rares and non-rares is pretty abysmal. I could just use an i&g all day or craft a razor longsword and basically be wielding a heron with a little less ob/pb. Down sblades!

Abs is strong, but it would be nice if it's stronger. Echoing most of the sentiments here about that.

Raiste
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:39 pm

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Raiste » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:29 pm

Thought I read in a different thread that top tier ABS is already at its maximum durability although such a change would be welcome and makes sense.

Roryn
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:42 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by Roryn » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:33 pm

Yeah, pretty sure I read a while back that decreasing the durability loss on abs was pretty problematic.

Up abs weapons, across the board. Pretty common consensus from a lot of very knowledgeable pkers.

isabel
Posts: 1721
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

Post by isabel » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:46 pm

Yeah, Elysia had said it can't be fixed.

Btw someone posting here explained how earlier combo used to be 65-67 so abs was the dominant offensive style and abs hunter was actually a great offensive/chasing setup, and I think those of us who only know an upped-combo post-zerk attack world in which abs/hunter was somewhat obsolete, wouldn't really have understood some of these points without that context.

Post Reply