Aspiring to better ABS?

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Cosimo
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 5:46 pm

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Cosimo » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:14 pm

RE: Pristine abs. A brand new abs set is only 500 gold from the weary merchants, getting a fresh piece is only 40-125 gold in the market hall. The ease of replacing not just abs, but any gear, is probably the easiest it has ever been. There doesn't need to be any additional means of maintaining gear for longer than it already exists in game.

RE: The original purpose of this thread, RARE abs gear and weapons. Yes, I agree that Murgoz should be made more desirable to use by lowering the parry malus to a similiar level as basic abs. It should be an actual upgrade rather than the sidegrade that it is now, where you are trading more abs for less bash. Given that murgoz is actually somewhat rare and hard to get this would be a good change.

Abs weapons on the other hand are actually in a pretty good spot in general, both common and rare. There are viable basic abs weapons in every single category with good damage and you're capping max bash % against abs/combo. As for damage, Heron greats and war axes are already 9d5s, and gold sword are 8d5s how much more damage do you want? The only real change in weapons I would actually argue for is downing e-axe to the same damage range as all the other non-rares, from 8d5 to maybe 9d4, which would go a long way in making the heron greats, war axes, mauls, and gold swords more desirable as upgrades. Other than that some smaller changes would *maybe* be:

Gold Swords --> 17.8 lbs
Heron G --> 16.7 lbs

Plus we now have a craftable DTL (I think?) so that's a new uber bashing/charging abs weapon that is super viable as well.

TLDR: Lower parry malus on murgoz, down eaxe, slightly up the rare swords.

Detritus
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:22 am

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Detritus » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:53 am

Perception is a funny thing.

Completely disagree with your TLDR, increase parry malus on EVERYTHING, decrease on nothing if it's going to keep effecting bash(which is strong enough already on the rare swords without more weight).
Nerf club bonus(i use clubs all the time).

Murgoz abs other than greaves and vamps(100% load) seems very hard to get.

Calling a 1handed weapon an abs weapon is also odd.

Delion
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:04 am

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Delion » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:07 am

It being an 18lb, 0pb weapon does suggest it’s an abs weapon. Can certainly go heavy combo but you won’t be parrying as much as you’d like.

Gold swords already bash insane, awesome weapon. Not sure they need buffing.

Maybe a little more weight on a heron great. Not much though with it already rocking 90ob and 9d5.

Tirric
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Tirric » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:16 am

More weight or PB on heron great would be nice. Feel like it should be the best 2h lblade all across, being a heron and all, but the bash is really iffy on it, great everything else though.

Mhaliah
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Mhaliah » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:29 pm

It isn't that the basic shiner abs is hard to get, it is that it is the only armor set that has a malus based on its status, which is exacerbated by lower condition and compounded by higher damage weapon availability.

As far as abs weapons go, clubs are the quintessential abs weapons. The bash bonus makes them the best match for abs. Bashing an opponent is the only way to really inflict reliable damage as an abs player. The lack of club crafting is not good for abs. There isn't even a superior or rare club available to craft, the best club that can be crafted is a silver mallet. I have been in 1v1 pk where with the silver mallet I could bash a parry max master, but then even when they were sitting they could still parry the mallet reliably.

This is some seat of my pants math here so check it, but...

Bash is a trade. You trade one round with the risk of a second sitting round, for 1 round of sitting with the potential of a second round when the opponent is over 50%hp or no autowimpy flee.

Against MC/FC at 130db with ice spikes it is a trade of an average 1.4 weaves with 60 average damage, for the possibility of 1.5 hits (averaging in autowimpy below 50%hp, 0 zerk attack) with 19.5 average damage (assuming 1.3x bonus for damage against sitting opponent).

That is 1.4x60 = 84emote damage vs. 1.5x19.5 = 29.25melee damage (assuming 0 parry).

I have been low batt when I missed two bashes against a healthy dodge DL in 1v1 that started Healthy v Healthy. When a solo abs non master sees a MC/FC (especially one with master bonuses) they have to run away just to survive. Attempting a bash is super high risk, for almost no reward.

Viva
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:16 pm

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Viva » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:25 pm

An idea I have had for a bit to give some options to ABS setups is to create an ABS shield. The idea is to allow 1h weapon use in the setup to give a chance of parrying an occasional hit, mainly from aggro mobs. What the shields would need to be so that they would be effective and dodge and combo didn't use them is to add a -10 db malus to them, up the pb bonus to +15 of a silver etched, and use the heavier shields in the class so that the weight and db malus would stop any combo/dodge use. The number I used above need some more scientific investigation to find the right balance, but the theory is sound I think.

Fermin
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Fermin » Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:53 pm

Back to the original poster and the purpose of the thread - the fact is the best ABS kit with a rare weapon is probably worth just the price of the rare weapon (7500 gold?)...you could add a silver medallion (+5k gold) but it doesn't add anything really. There should really be a way an abser is running around in something very rare, maybe no more then a handful of full sets total in the game...

This isn't needed, but it is good for the game. It gives the ABSer a feeling of really losing something when they die, which is what a lot of players like, gives them a reason to play conservatively and still get decent pk (because others will be gunning for the rares) and it allows for more equitable fights if they so desire it.

Typically getting involved in a very low abs vs dodge battle feels a little bit dumb on the dodger side especially if they are in a top kit worth maybe 25k (dirks 7.5k, 2x silver med 10k, 2x cuff 3k, surcoat 7.5k).

Another option I think could be looked at is gold ABS kit...We have typical ABS, gold ABS and murgoz ABS - I would think they all have different pros and cons and some are rarer then others...(but I couldn't tell you the pros and cons and not a lot of people care about which ones they are using so I think they aren't too well known and need further identification).

Cosimo
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 5:46 pm

Re: Aspiring to better ABS?

Post by Cosimo » Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:32 pm

I overlooked the value aspect in my post, but I agree with Fermin on this point. Either take the current Murgoz set or the gold set and up the abs numbers or lower the parry malus on them a little more so they are actually desirable. If balanced correctly a rare abs set should hit around the same gold target as the ornate/lace shirts at 4-5K, so that with a rare weapon and trinks a kitted out abser will be worth around 10-12K.

There's really no more room to tweak rare abs weapons upwards, and I'd imagine any rare trinkets designed to help an abser in any fashion would also inadvertently help combo/dodge, so the only other place to make any adjustments would be on the abs sets themselves.

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