LS War shortening idea.

[Reyne]

One of the things in the war feedback forum was that LS wars were deemed too long. They do seem to burn out players.

My reason for keeping them two weeks is to allow inactive clans to call in members, which seemed to take a few days for Mayene. So that part of it is obviously necessary.

So I had an idea that in order to declare a war, a clan has to post an ULTIMATUM of one week (at least!) on Tales of Light and if that isn't met, war can start, with a duration of one week. That would give clans a headsup and allow them to rally members and call them back from the time sucker called Real Life.

Does that appeal to people, or not?

I like this. It seems a little more RPish also in terms of a cassus belli has to be created and supported instead of just "hey we're at war now, blitzkrieg!"

[Atienne]

how do we fix random groups hitting the general in off peak hours i.e. 3am or when none of the other clan's members can protect it etc.

Seems like that takes away from the intended purpose to promote pk. I'd say remove the general hits, and give people +qps for every pkill during war time. Maybe general hits could count as long as 3+ of the opposing clan members are actively online (represented on the who list) to keep things from becoming lopsided.

The goal is to make more pk, for more people to rip, and for more qps to be generated. Thoughts?

This. Either figure a way to beef up the mobs when there’s no other players to defend or get rid of generals altogether. If not this, at least figure a way to save whether general was hit over boot. Too many people would hit it right before boot, then hit it again immediately, getting twice the points in the span of minutes. If you hit it right before boot, it shouldn’t pop until like 4-6 hours after boot.

Not sure what’s on their plate already, but more watcher involvement during wars would be nice too. Like what Detritus said earlier in the thread, more temporary mob support based on numbers and how a side is doing in a war. When we fought someone a year or two ago, we were really far ahead. That should be reflected by a nice patrol camped out near the city. Likewise, by that time the other side was being decimated and may have given up. Maybe beef up the city or the general a little if no one is willing to log on to defend. Give the peasants swords instead of hoes and have them aggro temporarily to defend their city. Flavor. The point is to give “dead” clans a chance to avoid getting utterly destroyed in the points game. And to give players a reason not to just sit in their city (admittedly I did this but that’s how you win the game).

If you can figure a way to get people to not sit in their city all day to defend / give people a chance if it’s 2 vs the world (though me and Sarryn could easily win that one lmao) then I think people would like wars more. If we had a nice encampment outside the city I would have been more likely to go sit there and fight them at the gates when they rode out to hit our city. And it gives them a chance to get back if I screw up or get beat and have to run and they kill me.

I do like the idea of a few days/1 week to get stuff together followed by 1 week of actual war. No sneak attacks is nice etc.

I also think that the cookie cutter demands might contribute some to it. Really all you might get is some gold they might not even have and a bad rp apology. Sure you could get a small patrol or a jump exit too. Dunno it just never felt right, very formulaic. Maybe because it might promote a specific way to war that burns everyone out. Someone wants money and patrols all over the world so they warmonger? Changes the focus of the war system from resolving actual disputes to just whether someone thinks they can score 200 points and then demand 20k gold and a patrol for the trouble they started.

[Mhaliah]

This would help reduce the people that hit general 2-3 times before the defending clan even knows they're at war.

how do we fix random groups hitting the general in off peak hours i.e. 3am or when none of the other clan's members can protect it etc.

Most of the general hits are done for QPs via temporary Council Quests as the scalps have to be turned in for War Points instead of QPs. The "surprise hits" and "farming the general" concerns are non issues which have been resolved by:

1) Making the generals unsolo-able (i.e. throwing weapons under War System 1.0).

2) Buffing the patrols.
It takes 5-6 PC to clear the general. And, with general narration a single non-clan alt watching to notify via discord, this is pretty easily interrupted unless the clan literally has 0 active members across all alts.

3) Making banners 5pts vs 10pts in WS 1.0.
How many wars were determined by <15 points that can be gleaned from the surprise general hits? As far as I know none have been under the newest tally system.

This whole war system was put in so wars wouldn't be permanent. If warrants and banishments remain, it goes against the very purpose of the war system.

And now we are concerned that 2 weeks is too long? I think two weeks is plenty short enough. If your summer vacation is timed wrong/right you can miss the whole war.

Before Declaring War:
You must have a valid reason to declare war. E.g. not "I'm bored, let's declare war". Don't declare out of nowhere. Usually there will be rising tensions. Let politicians have a chance to solve things.

Related: diffusing a conflict should totally be something that can earn a solid reward by Council.

Confusion about this seems to be the real problem. QG had a valid reason to declare war on Murandy from both PvP and RP perspectives. But, was there much in the way of rising tensions that gave politicians a chance to solve things?

The idea of an Ultimatum to formalize the escalation and allow for RP from clan members, allies, Gray Ajah etc. to diffuse and avoid war for RP based QP rewards is an idea I can get behind. RP based QP are good in my book.

[Elysia]

Not sure what’s on their plate already, but more watcher involvement during wars would be nice too.

<>

Dunno it just never felt right, very formulaic.

Overall, too much, which is why it's formulaic. Case in point, gem mining had been waiting around for at least a year before I got to it. Something a clan got this month had been sitting around as an idea for at least 9 months.

The last thing we want is a clan with an active imm having an advantage over a clan with an inactive imm, which means if we want to avoid that, it essentially defaults to me as the war system person. Which means if I have a busy 2 weeks, I can't deliver and there is no equality across the (war) board.

[Rodger]

I think an ultimatum phase is a great idea, as some wars haven't been completely thought through and it gives other players something to think about and how to get involved / profit.

These are my other thoughts:
1. The White Tower:
The White Tower is so much a huge part of politics and war in the books, it would be nice to see them take a more leading role even if in a roleplay only format. I'd like to see Aes Sedai getting involved in starting wars, organizing allies, etc etc as that I believe could be very interesting and fun.

Gaidin or Valon Guard should be able to get involved as an ally as well (if not able to declare war themselves).

2. The Mercs
Mercenaries have been pretty powerful in previous wars with no drawbacks, perhaps something to change this could be done. I haven't yet been in a war where K Wanted works though, so maybe that makes fighting stabbers a bit better...

3. The Seanchan
It would be nice to see a way for Seanchan to get involved, I was always expecting them to just dominate under the war system but they never really got into it.

4. Counting points: I like the general hits and pk aspect of war but I believe there could be some caps that would help...

[Enoch]

I know strength of Generals has been mentioned, and how much it takes to clear them or not. I just remembered seeing this on announcements. Not sure the impact on the war outcomes yet since it's yet to be tested.

http://forums.wotmud.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8841

The amount of elite soldiers in the victor's general patrol will be brought down with 1 after the war.

That way, less active clans with a greater potential of losing, will remain strong and harder to hit, while it will become easier to hit and score points against more aggressive clans. The stronger clans will then also have to deal with a weakness - their general, which will necessitate them to take a more active role in defending their general.

[Atienne]

Not sure what’s on their plate already, but more watcher involvement during wars would be nice too.

<>

Dunno it just never felt right, very formulaic.

Overall, too much, which is why it's formulaic. Case in point, gem mining had been waiting around for at least a year before I got to it. Something a clan got this month had been sitting around as an idea for at least 9 months.

The last thing we want is a clan with an active imm having an advantage over a clan with an inactive imm, which means if we want to avoid that, it essentially defaults to me as the war system person. Which means if I have a busy 2 weeks, I can't deliver and there is no equality across the (war) board.

Yeah that wouldn’t be very fair if one clan has an active watcher and another doesn’t. Then it would fall on you. Too bad you can’t just raise another watcher to just be in charge of that element of the war system. You could keep tweaking stuff, but they could handle day to day of tallies, mob support, affiliates, etc.

I always thought it would be neat to see a full fledged war where both sides fight each other 5 on 5 and have armies of mobs chasing each other around. Think like col wars back in what? 2005-2008? But with giant patrols running around messing stuff up. We would need a watcher able to organize that kind of stuff and make it relatively fair though so probably won’t happen.

[Ominas]

I think an ultimatum phase is a great idea, as some wars haven't been completely thought through and it gives other players something to think about and how to get involved / profit.

These are my other thoughts:
1. The White Tower:
The White Tower is so much a huge part of politics and war in the books, it would be nice to see them take a more leading role even if in a roleplay only format. I'd like to see Aes Sedai getting involved in starting wars, organizing allies, etc etc as that I believe could be very interesting and fun.

Gaidin or Valon Guard should be able to get involved as an ally as well (if not able to declare war themselves).

2. The Mercs
Mercenaries have been pretty powerful in previous wars with no drawbacks, perhaps something to change this could be done. I haven't yet been in a war where K Wanted works though, so maybe that makes fighting stabbers a bit better...

3. The Seanchan
It would be nice to see a way for Seanchan to get involved, I was always expecting them to just dominate under the war system but they never really got into it.

4. Counting points: I like the general hits and pk aspect of war but I believe there could be some caps that would help...

Agreed. Also agree with whoever said the general hits are not conducive to what you’re trying to do. Wage war. I was involved in one once, and literally sat and watched that clan watch me from their clan rooms for nearly the entire thing

[Viellain]

Wars are absolutely too long. Farming the general is how you win wars.

I think there should be a limit of one banner per boot and the emphasis should be on pk scalps. You could still win a war with banners but going to war with mobs seems silly.

That’s my opinion from experiencing 5 wars and losing none mainly due to banners.

[Viellain]

I guess to be constructive I like the one week warning. Leave it at 2 weeks with limited banner turn ins and the focus on player scalps.