Dragon Belt

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Fermin
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Dragon Belt

Post by Fermin » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:05 pm

Dragon Belt is one of the rarest items in the game and the change to its stats should be examined...

I lost my 3rd ever dragon belt (one a decade?), and the change to defense is just so minuscule. With the removal and hoarding of all the really rare and unique items, I think it is important that they are good enough to motivate people to use them. If I get another one, I would think to store or trade it over using because it really makes such a small difference compared to the rarity and cost.

I would suggest at least 5 3 and .01 lbs instead of the 4 3 .05 lbs but something broken would be even better. (8 0 .05 lbs anyone??!).

isabel
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by isabel » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:09 pm

Speaking as the bash player I would agree. Dodgers even in top end kits can be bashed by a club, the most common abs weapon no matter what the DB is. If an item is super super rare then having it be a little more up there is not a bad thing.

Sarryn
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Sarryn » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:29 am

It’s the rarest belt of a very boring and select few of belts. Needs upped quite a bit imo. Maybe 7db 3pb .7lbs

Not to off track this but a few more belts be cool to put into game. Rare belts etc variety. Maybe 2 different rarer then cbelts less good rare then dbelt?

granit
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:30 pm

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by granit » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:38 am

would be cool if there were rare or unique belts that upped parry a ton for absers too

Meren
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:45 pm

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Meren » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:43 am

It's nice to think of this in terms of "what if this rare item was better".

However, upping by your suggested amounts puts an armor affected dodger above 165db, in the right set. That set is easily attainable for the person that has a dragon belt.

At 165db, a mounted human with a titanic axe has a 15% chance to bash, brave, Level 7 Ride, parry trinkets, 19 strength. Seems reasonable.

At 165db, a trolloc in the same equipment and same mood has a 1% chance to bash.


Given that the armor weave is far easier to get as a human, this "small" change makes characters that are already infuriating nearly invincible. So to balance that one item, you'd have to down all other dodge for everyone else. The reason dragon belts aren't as good anymore, is dodge was too good for the few (your suggestion) or too weak for the many (how things were).

Jaster
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Jaster » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:55 pm

If you assemble a set with the rarest items it should significantly reduce the chance to get bashed. There is also nothing stopping the notion to put a con to the belt. You can add 2-3 more dB and then add -10 or 15mvs as its malus.

Bryan
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Shayol Ghul

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Bryan » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:50 pm

I'd err on the side of making them slightly more available rather than improving them. They shouldn't be dime a dozen, but the level of rarity is probably not quite right IMO. Keep in mind they are not particularly interesting other than adding passive db, and don't decay the way that other rares do.

If you're going to up DB somewhere, up it on a rare that damages & decays like the onyx shield or the rare dodge shirt so that they rotate in/out of the game. Otherwise it just leads to rare inflation over time.

IMO the main problem is that great dodge is so hard to get, and anything less than great dodge is mostly trash. Increasing the disparity between the two by e.g., upping dragon belts is likely to make dodge setups worse overall, not better. This is because you have to balance around the highest end setup or else you end up in situations like Meren is describing where most people are bashable but a few are nearly unkillable.

Fermin
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Fermin » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:52 pm

I agree but in that set no one is trying to get bashed by a brave unmaster troll, you assume you just stomp on them, which sucks but seems fair since you could probably trade any 1 of your 5? rares for 5-10x of those kits...

Compare bash % to berserk master trollocs and fades with rares - that is who you will be fighting, in numbers and they bash pretty good (or at least vs 160 dodge, I've never had 165). I would hope these numbers are around 15-30% but I think they are even higher.

Bryan
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Shayol Ghul

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Bryan » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:34 pm

Fermin wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:52 pm
I agree but in that set no one is trying to get bashed by a brave unmaster troll, you assume you just stomp on them, which sucks but seems fair since you could probably trade any 1 of your 5? rares for 5-10x of those kits...

Compare bash % to berserk master trollocs and fades with rares - that is who you will be fighting, in numbers and they bash pretty good (or at least vs 160 dodge, I've never had 165). I would hope these numbers are around 15-30% but I think they are even higher.
I agree with you that dodge is a bit weak right now, btw, and Meren's numbers might not be quite reflective of what PKing is actually like (berserkers abound on both sides). My preference would be to improve the availability of dbelts, and then add db somewhere else. Or, add more pb onto dodge basics so dodgers are somewhat more likely to parry bashed hits.

I don't believe improving an exceedingly rare items helps dodge as a category per se.

Kat
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:39 pm

Re: Dragon Belt

Post by Kat » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:45 pm

It seems odd to consider the best kit possible and compare it to a non-master troll trying to bash brave. I agree that this should almost never land, 1-2%? Completely fair. Because then you need to consider that when this same troll pops a strength tea and goes berserk then he has a 20% chance to land a bash. Make him a master and it goes up to 33% chance. Give him a mallet and suddenly it's almost 40%.

37% chance vs the best possible dodge kit in the game. Seems more than fair.

That being said I do agree with what some of the other people have already said and that instead of going crazy on this one item, give it a small stat bump maybe 6/3, and look to tweak up the other dodge pieces by a point, onyx shield, lace shirt, maybe even go up .5 db on jcuffs or grings. I think dodge in general just needs a little adjustment upwards rather than just at the top end.

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