Let's Discuss Seanchan Side

[tekela]

I've seen this side go through several iterations at this point. I appreciate the effort that has gone into the most recent reversion and implementing neato things like playable damane, but it feels like something that may have been appropriate a decade ago vs. the current game. And that's *with* the COVID bump in mind.

Now that we've had several months to play this change out, some serious consideration needs to be given to either reverting seanchan to a same-side faction/set of clans or just calling it, letting people transfer their clanned characters or tossing seanchan into a Minions type of catch-all clan for people who do not want to work through the process of transferring their characters.

My understanding is that Itesh was working on coding a 'k wanted' command, which would resolve most of the annoying same-side PK implications of having a whole new hostile faction (which is not a purely seanchan issue, imo) while giving people with seanchan characters they've invested time/effort into the option to play their characters in support of the 2-way war our numbers are actually capable of supporting.

This snip-snap-snip-snap approach to seanchan has been interesting, but the side basically exists for the consistent entertainment of maybe 3 people now and even those people are showing up to DS/LS pk and skewing numbers/perceptions of numbers and having a negative overall impact (can't group despite numbers, so LS feels limited and plays that way, while DS still has to account for people that can hit them).

IDK what to do about damane, because I thought that wasn't the best idea to begin with, but having them as a LS faction would probably be fine. What's another inactive channeler clan, as long as the current weave restrictions stay in place?

TL;DR - Do something to consolidate SS/LS, whether that's rolling it into LS as a faction or just Chosenifying by deleting it and making it so that it's a "mob" faction, there for flavor/smobs. Remove 'k light'. Revert to 'k human'. Implement 'k wanted'.

[Joolis]

Regardless of what happens, please do not remove 'k light'. This was a literal godsend

[Tusty]

Some of those points are fair but over all I don’t see the benefit of deleting the side or moving it to LS. Honestly I feel that SS brings some needed flavor and balance to the pk situation. When I came back a few months ago the only pk that happened was patty cake Fade/Gaidin pk in 3 zones.
That’s fine if you play those chars but in general not good for the rest of the MUD.
As far as SS being involved in DS pk, come on...it doesn’t tip the balance in favor of LS. It’s just a matter or accounting for the numbers. We can’t group with LS and most often have 0 support mobs to fall back on with the exception of TD.
Most often LS is a rag tag group of newbs or lesser skilled pkers led by Ryzom , therefore adding a more balanced fight with us around. (not that any of us are great)
My 2 cents for what it’s worth.

[Vaen]

edit to avoid CONFUSING people

[tekela]

As far as SS being involved in DS pk, come on...it doesn’t tip the balance in favor of LS. It’s just a matter or accounting for the numbers. We can’t group with LS and most often have 0 support mobs to fall back on with the exception of TD.

This is my point. Seanchan basically tip the balance in favor of confusion more than anything. You can't group, you can't really use mob support, but you still count for numbers against DS, which makes them very scared. You can't group, you can't really use mob support, you don't really do much for LS during similar numbers/slightly outnumbered scenario (especially whenever some smarty pants remember that 'k human' and 'k seanchan' still works and targets separate groups), which makes LS very scared. It's just pretty limited in terms of actual value to maintaining PK and going through the core beats of attacking, winning/losing, regrouping, counterattacking, etc.

Also, gotta laugh at the 0 mob support thing. This ain't 2003 and an entire village + channeling mobs very much moves the needle above "0".

[Tusty]

Bro, I mentioned TD in my post. What else we got? Kaf?
With this logic, should delete Wolfbro, DL’s, Fades, since they only exist for the entertainment of a limited few as well. Same with really rare eq.
I just get the feeling of an unwillingness to adjust to a different dynamic to pk. Accounting for numbers has always been a part of the game.

[Kordin]

First question would be for active SS players, and those inactive but planning on returning once RL/whatever permits - would deleting or closing SS make you leave the game?

If yes, then I think this is a bad idea.

If no, then I'd just suggest offering a one-time transfer to LS and maybe clan of their choosing (if said clan agrees to take them) and then closing the side - just in case a miracle happens and mud sees a healthy base of 70-80+ players online on average, and then it's not building everything from scratch, just reopening something that exists already.

I agree that the numbers are too low, but if it means losing even one active player, the game can't really afford that. Even though it is still bleeding players....

I'm generally against deleting anything just because numbers are low and "PK is suffering" , whether it's a playable side or zone (#bringbackAltara #impeverythingfromWoTmap). There are plenty (kind of ridiculous) ways to fast travel all over now, and that combined with a shrinking map is a bad idea, imho, as (from what I've seen at least) it really just makes ganking easier rather than provide "solid PK", whatever that is these days...

When I came back a few months ago the only pk that happened was patty cake Fade/Gaidin pk in 3 zones.

This PK still happens most often. Perhaps not that much with Fades and Gaidin involved, but it's still the same zones for the most part - Blight - Orch - DF - Camp - Shady - Dusty - Winding - Gap - maybe LS - Blight, and then the occasional raid to Andor/Murandy (now that the ridiculous gateway is in Altara).

Have a feeling even if SS is removed/closed, if west Blight along with maybe Kandor and Saldaea get a facelift and some old zone connections back, if Black Flame was for DS "cities" only and not south, PK would still happen in those aforementioned zones most of the time. From various other discussions, seems to me most people want a quick starting PK, faster reeq and even faster return to the fight....basically CoD: WoTMUD with 2 fav maps....anything else is apparently an issue of not knowing zones, taking too much time etc.

All that being said - i wouldn't mind if Falme (and maybe Seandar if left open) was a huge smob area. Honestly don't see a problem with the game focusing more on enriching the PvE/RP side of it....as it more or less always was before, PK followed it naturally, rather than trying to "promote" with PK focused changes.

My 2 random copper pennys

[tekela]

Andor raids were happening long before the gateway. This game is probably the most PVE/RP-centric I can ever remember it being with several people mastering or getting higher ranks based off of trading, selling stuff, or heralding. There's more side-trade options than ever and plenty to just do and explore. So I don't see what that complaint is about there. PvP is what kept people around for decades in some cases, so even if I disagree with some of the specifics and execution, I don't think the intent of the Imms is off-base on that front. That's a whole another conversation though.

PRC seanchan do not really add anything to the RP atmosphere either. Yes, yes, hurr durr, swear the oaths, but we know it's just either purple trolloc nonsense or be bored or run around up north and pretend it makes sense that northern mob support can't tell difference between humans with funny accents and shadowspawn.

[Kellam]

Bro, I mentioned TD in my post. What else we got? Kaf?
With this logic, should delete Wolfbro, DL’s, Fades, since they only exist for the entertainment of a limited few as well. Same with really rare eq.
I just get the feeling of an unwillingness to adjust to a different dynamic to pk. Accounting for numbers has always been a part of the game.

I don't see you guys flipping CTFs or going Lugard kaf tbh

[Shaxx]

PRC seanchan do not really add anything to the RP atmosphere either. Yes, yes, hurr durr, swear the oaths, but we know it's just either purple trolloc nonsense or be bored

Are you kidding?! Wolfgang stole some horses once in retaliation for Silvak's death. I personally thought that was amazing RP content.

Edit: Providing link in case anyone missed it: http://forums.wotmud.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13042