Wheel of Time MUD

Has become the new currency, which is a good development generally. But TPs are bleeding out by way of tokens because there is little incentive to keep them. Camus’ implementation of requiring TPs to purchase a class of rares helps to provide some incentive to keep TPs, although it is currently untested as to how motivated people are to do so at this stage.

I think we should have more incentives for people to retain TPs. One suggestion is to have a minor bonus for Ta’verens and Reavers. Because these people affect the turn of the Wheel and are in turn affected by the Wheel, we can have either:
1) +5 ob
2) +5 db or
3) +5 pb

which can be adjusted by imm seasonally (say once every 2 months).

I’m not sure if a proposal for Ta and Reaver to be bonused is in the NWIH list (please correct me if it is).

Please discuss!

better to get rid of the lists entirely as they are merely a way to promote the type of pk that is very bad. Only cool thing about the lists at all is the fade requirement to kill someone on them...and even that isn't worth having them around. Let TP be private and just delete the lists.

I agree with Fermin to an extent. The lists are cool because there is potential for recognition. I think more people have an issue with the Ta'veren list than the Reaver list, as far as perception of how you got on the list at least.

I don't think that people should get bonuses for being on the list. Unless something is done so that the trend of nearly everyone on the list being a stabber is somehow reversed. At that point you will just have four or five stabbers that opt for +5 DB on top of the ridiculous amount of DB they got already and then everyone will just complain about unbashable dodgers with 165 DB.

It would require a lot of intervention from Staff and Immortals, though. And coding. But there should be other ways to get turn points. Maybe they could be awarded if you complete or solve a global quest? Maybe a mob raid on your city takes your clan head hostage, and you have to save your leader. A successful save would result in some turn points, since by saving your own influential leader, you influenced the Pattern. Ditto on hitting LS/DS generals, and to a lesser extent war generals during wars.

It would probably still favor stabbers, but I think it would be interesting if the sheer number of levels of the enemy side you kill over the course of a struggle month would result in some bonus turn points. This would shine brightly when you have multiple people on the list who are essentially inactive, those players who log on to prevent decay and maybe playerkill someone, then rent for a few more months in real life time. Instead, if you are playing all day (a game month is about 16 hours I think?) and get a ton of levels of kills, you would get some bonus turn points, even if the players you killed weren't particularly valuable in terms of how many turn points they have accumulated. I think it makes sense, because obviously you did something to prevent the Shadow or Lightside from encroaching on and taking your territory.

I'm afraid people will compare this to "smob for turn points" and shoot it down, besides, it would be a lot of coding and potential manual work for the Immortals and Staff, but I think it would make more sense as far as rewarding players for "influencing" the game rather than just killing players with turn points and not dying (and for some players, essentially going inactive after reaching a certain point). At least for Ta'veren, I think this makes sense. I don't remember if "Reavers" were a thing in the books like Ta'veren were, for some reason I don't think so, correct me if I am wrong.

Based on what I have seen about the lists over the last few months, especially considering the requirement in the remort quest, I think it would be a good idea to expand the list, at least for Ta'veren, to have a list of 10 players. Especially with people turning in points to get crafting tokens, I think we will see a lot more movement and activity on the bottom of the list, much like we do with 5-6-7 as of late historically (over the last 6-12 months) and it would give a chance for recent DS masters to fulfill that portion of the remort quest.

I think there are good points made about the lists. But the real question is how do you incentivise the keeping (rather than turning in) of TPs?

For ages people have been suggesting changing the list to promote more positive PK. List the people who have gained the most TPs within a month, rather than just those who have accumulated the total amount of TPs overall. That way you encourage people to PK in a positive way, and you also make it so that quests that include a requirement to kill a Reaver/Ta automatically involve attempts to kill an active player, rather than waiting for someone to log on for the first time in 6 months?

Downside - coding

Zyonel wrote:I think there are good points made about the lists. But the real question is how do you incentivise the keeping (rather than turning in) of TPs?

You could give perks and like I said before I don't think anyone is against that, except for the fact that (and this is not an attack at anyone) most of the players are solo stabbers with insane defense kits who know how to play that class well. To a lesser extent we see channelers on there too, since they can get kills with weave targeting and especially since I believe weaves are not affected by max engage coding.

If you want to give perks, I think it would be necessary to figure out a way that absers and to a lesser extent regular combo people could make the list.

That is why in my previous post I proposed expanding the list and including more sources for turn points. Right now we have maybe 3-4 people (at least on Ta'veren) who I would consider to be pretty much inactive. With more turn point sources, someone who plays regularly, like Otis for example, would have the chance to overtake someone higher on the list sooner, while others farther down the list that actually play, such as Fermin, Solen, and Harun, would be able to move up on the list if they so wish. With three more Ta'veren slots, we would probably see more people like Rhys, Sarryn, Natia, etc. With more sources of turn points they would be able to overtake those people who are essentially inactive, and then unnamed people who haven't been on the list might be able to accumulate enough points to get on the bottom of the list.

I am not sure how many turn points you lose when you die, but altering that in some manner might be beneficial to people who play abs playstyles, to give them a chance to get up there as well. They should be able to influence the game world just as well as someone in combo or dodge, and they often do. Look at all the Gaidin Warders leading groups to the Blight while playing abs. Even Rhys before was abs clubs and on Ta'veren.

It would be a lot of work and probably a lot of coding though. It also introduces the possibility of flooding the game with more crafted weapons, but it sounds like the Immortals and Staff are monitoring that and adjusting prices based on that.

Petra wrote:For ages people have been suggesting changing the list to promote more positive PK. List the people who have gained the most TPs within a month, rather than just those who have accumulated the total amount of TPs overall. That way you encourage people to PK in a positive way, and you also make it so that quests that include a requirement to kill a Reaver/Ta automatically involve attempts to kill an active player, rather than waiting for someone to log on for the first time in 6 months?

Downside - coding

This is also a good suggestion. However, I still think the list should address other influences players have on the game. Hence my suggestion of turn points for solving a global quest, or saving Agelmar from the DS, or helping a clan mate finish their master quest. Of course all awards would be in line with what role you play. If you saved Agelmar by yourself, somehow, you would get way more than if you helped your clan mate kill a smob. Your suggestion is also good because the list as it is now favors long term survival. An abser might be able to survive for an in game month, but over the course of several in game months, it is almost a guarantee that they will die.

Just throw my 2 cents in, I bank every 50 tps I get because otherwise I lose 'em. I think my KDR is not favorable though

1. How do you bank then?
2. Ryalth sucks
3. I agree with Fermin and Mangler

My preference would be that the lists reflect recent activity, and that it would be fun to have some small bonus so that it's not simply a cosmetic label.

The tokens have been good for getting that started, and probably would be even more successful if it were possible to implement a harsher decay rate for huge quantities of turn points. That would encourage players who know they won't be active to purge what they have and open a spot up for someone more active. One way or another, this will sort itself out.

If there were bonuses, they would probably only be viable if applied automatically and dynamically (rather than manually.) One way would be flat additions to OB/DB/PB, but top end dodge doesn't need any help, especially in combination with stab. Another version would be some type of scaling so that the seventh spot, which anyone can hit randomly, is less valuable than a top spot.

On the flip side, most people that end up on the lists are already bonused masters and also don't need the help.

Another possibility would be to actually create some sort of non-stats-based malus to being on the lists, like turning the swirl of colors into a sense or smell that alerts players there is a big dog in the zone. That would be another way of encouraging players to make a decision about what kind of playstyle they want. That would make it harder for listers to randomly gank people and easier for others to hunt them down. That's probably my favorite idea! Especially because the more ways we have to find other players, the better.

I don't think we need to find ways to encourage players to retain anything. The more circulation the better.

Harun wrote:
Another possibility would be to actually create some sort of non-stats-based malus to being on the lists, like turning the swirl of colors into a sense or smell that alerts players there is a big dog in the zone. That would be another way of encouraging players to make a decision about what kind of playstyle they want. That would make it harder for listers to randomly gank people and easier for others to hunt them down. That's probably my favorite idea! Especially because the more ways we have to find other players, the better.

Used to be something like this... when a same side list was in your zone you got a "The pattern is pulling at you" and when it was a cross race it said "The pattern pushes at you"

Or something along those lines. Was long time ago and wasn't around long iirc