Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Arkaza is by far the worst example to use to base any decisions on. He rents at healthy when he may die.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Listen to Davor!
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Haha.
This has been happening for years. i.e. since 2001.
Yes, the rogue class is fucked. You need to be on top of everything just to maintain a high landing success rate and there is no guarantee that the stab you land will be any good.
I persevered with the rogue class for a long time and then realised that it was a lost cause. Tried to recreate my character as a hunter, and got shafted by my clan in the process. But then again as a rogue I was used to being shafted anyway
There was a silver lining however.
My advice is just give up. Whether you want to or are ready to, that's your decision.
This has been happening for years. i.e. since 2001.
Yes, the rogue class is fucked. You need to be on top of everything just to maintain a high landing success rate and there is no guarantee that the stab you land will be any good.
I persevered with the rogue class for a long time and then realised that it was a lost cause. Tried to recreate my character as a hunter, and got shafted by my clan in the process. But then again as a rogue I was used to being shafted anyway
There was a silver lining however.My advice is just give up. Whether you want to or are ready to, that's your decision.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
If you think the (trolloc) rogue class is hard (and you're not factoring in the effort required not to hang yourself out of pure boredom), the problem is you.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
I just got stabbed from full to dead by someone 19 levels below me so seems like it works decently to me. Granted my CON is pretty low.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Fun thread - a 'semi-asshole' ? Lol.
I've never really played rogues but I have definitely got my 'pk fix' from playing against that class. But then I'm nearly always abs/bash.
I don't usually bother trying to chase a rogue too far so there's no frustration there, and rogues don't have much track so if they can chase me down then they definitely earned the win because they figured out opponent running strategy.
The part that is fun for me is when you're trying to land a bash around mobs, avoid missed-bash-stab, or trying to build their fleelag, while they try to whittle you down, land a missed-bash/stab and autowimpy out of stuff.
The last time I was fighting a rogue around blight/gap, I kept losing hps and moves because of blight heat and because I had 89 notice so had to throw in h.dark - so for about 20 exciting minutes it was other player crit-beat/low moves vs me crit-beat/haggish. Anecdotal of course but the abs changes also probably give absers more of a chance there.
It's more a reflection of how certain setups aren't fun or challenging against each other. For me, in terms of phase 1 of a fight, the abs/bash vs abs/bash is less fun than abs/bash vs a rogue fight of the type I described - because the abs v abs you have the mandatory 5 minutes of getting each other low first which for some players is so boring or whatever apparently that they use scripts to bypass it.
The players against whom that is fun are like Markus or someone who would actually kick your ass very quickly in that bit :p But even then it feels like that stage of the fight is a penalty for the player who does better, because the one with the lower hps goes to mobs.
Anyway bla bla (bored at work
) but before hating on rogues we should see setups first. Of course if a rogue refuses to pk you in abs and tries to flee/stab or call groups/run to mobs etc it's silly :p But we should really look at what setups are fun to fight against in what setups. Like channeler vs channeler, 1 talented combo hunter vs 3 abs hunter/warriors, Lykan vs all-wotmud grouped, etc.
I've never really played rogues but I have definitely got my 'pk fix' from playing against that class. But then I'm nearly always abs/bash.
I don't usually bother trying to chase a rogue too far so there's no frustration there, and rogues don't have much track so if they can chase me down then they definitely earned the win because they figured out opponent running strategy.
The part that is fun for me is when you're trying to land a bash around mobs, avoid missed-bash-stab, or trying to build their fleelag, while they try to whittle you down, land a missed-bash/stab and autowimpy out of stuff.
The last time I was fighting a rogue around blight/gap, I kept losing hps and moves because of blight heat and because I had 89 notice so had to throw in h.dark - so for about 20 exciting minutes it was other player crit-beat/low moves vs me crit-beat/haggish. Anecdotal of course but the abs changes also probably give absers more of a chance there.
It's more a reflection of how certain setups aren't fun or challenging against each other. For me, in terms of phase 1 of a fight, the abs/bash vs abs/bash is less fun than abs/bash vs a rogue fight of the type I described - because the abs v abs you have the mandatory 5 minutes of getting each other low first which for some players is so boring or whatever apparently that they use scripts to bypass it.
The players against whom that is fun are like Markus or someone who would actually kick your ass very quickly in that bit :p But even then it feels like that stage of the fight is a penalty for the player who does better, because the one with the lower hps goes to mobs.
Anyway bla bla (bored at work
) but before hating on rogues we should see setups first. Of course if a rogue refuses to pk you in abs and tries to flee/stab or call groups/run to mobs etc it's silly :p But we should really look at what setups are fun to fight against in what setups. Like channeler vs channeler, 1 talented combo hunter vs 3 abs hunter/warriors, Lykan vs all-wotmud grouped, etc.-
Firimei Lang
- Posts: 1268
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:09 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Should just change the title and delete the last three words..
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
ROFL and people complain about stab?
[ba jeia] g >
You silently approach your victim...
*Weir* starts barreling down on you, a dark blue tasseled spear aimed at your chest.
=
*Garett* pierces a Ghar'ghael trolloc's right foot hard.
Zangief tries to slash *Tarak*, but he deflects the blow.
cc
*
*Jeia* tries to slash Shimu, but he parries successfully.
Suddenly *someone* charges you with a dark blue tasseled spear!
You are dead! Sorry...
You feel the Weave of the Wheel loosen from you.
Ouch! You lose a level.
You stop following Zangief.
Circle of Darkness
Deep beneath the world, the circle of darkness is the accursed ground of
the friends of the dark. From here, a few major locations can be reached,
as shown by a blood-colored sign. A permanently-flowing well in the center
of the circle provides a soothing background to ponder mortal matters.
-
For complete beginners, please type HELP NEWBIE.
For new characters, please type LOOK NAMES.
Newcomers to this mud should LOOK NOTICE.
New characters should TELL GUARDIAN KIT.
If you're looking for something to do after dying, LOOK SLAIN.
[ obvious exits: N E S W U D ]
East: A large, goat-faced trolloc glares at you hungrily.
West: A trolloc is here commanding a fist of troops.
Up: A fade is stalking in the darkness.
Down: A hooved trolloc anxiously stamps its feet.
A lantern has been left here.
A revolting well bubbles with the blood of the sacrificed.
The News Board is mounted on the wall here.
Roxie the Darkling Senior is standing here.
o HP:Critical MV:Haggard > [k h.human]
Maybe you should get on your feet first?
o HP:Critical MV:Haggard >
Shimu narrates 'jesus firetrucking christ'
[ba jeia] g >
You silently approach your victim...
*Weir* starts barreling down on you, a dark blue tasseled spear aimed at your chest.
=
*Garett* pierces a Ghar'ghael trolloc's right foot hard.
Zangief tries to slash *Tarak*, but he deflects the blow.
cc
*
*Jeia* tries to slash Shimu, but he parries successfully.
Suddenly *someone* charges you with a dark blue tasseled spear!
You are dead! Sorry...
You feel the Weave of the Wheel loosen from you.
Ouch! You lose a level.
You stop following Zangief.
Circle of Darkness
Deep beneath the world, the circle of darkness is the accursed ground of
the friends of the dark. From here, a few major locations can be reached,
as shown by a blood-colored sign. A permanently-flowing well in the center
of the circle provides a soothing background to ponder mortal matters.
-
For complete beginners, please type HELP NEWBIE.
For new characters, please type LOOK NAMES.
Newcomers to this mud should LOOK NOTICE.
New characters should TELL GUARDIAN KIT.
If you're looking for something to do after dying, LOOK SLAIN.
[ obvious exits: N E S W U D ]
East: A large, goat-faced trolloc glares at you hungrily.
West: A trolloc is here commanding a fist of troops.
Up: A fade is stalking in the darkness.
Down: A hooved trolloc anxiously stamps its feet.
A lantern has been left here.
A revolting well bubbles with the blood of the sacrificed.
The News Board is mounted on the wall here.
Roxie the Darkling Senior is standing here.
o HP:Critical MV:Haggard > [k h.human]
Maybe you should get on your feet first?
o HP:Critical MV:Haggard >
Shimu narrates 'jesus firetrucking christ'
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
People aren't complaining about stab. People are complaining about DS wholist being comprised 100% of stab characters. Doesn't matter if stab is overpowerd or underpowered, in that scenario changes need to be made for diversity. If LS was 100% charge characters all the time, then yes, I would vote for changes, those changes could be to buff stab or buff abs so that there is diversity.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
My issue with rogues is that the setup lends to a hyper conservative playstyle that seems to have been embraced by many. The survivability of the class is arguably the best on the mud and when you pair that with conservative play, you generally end up not being much fun to PK with / against. Of course there are exceptions, first name that comes to mind is Shinobi - granted he is a human so he can't afford to spam around dismounted as much.
The thing with charge that makes it "okay" is that you aren't limited to spamfleeing around trying to run for charges, granted a few players choose to play it that way(most recent one would be Pial), but with a charge setup you generally also have bash practiced, which means you actually stick around and put up a fight - granted if you are using jade partisan/shocklance your bash is pretty abysmal.
What I don't understand is the lack of willingness to actually put up a fight as a rogue, those who try to go for a couple stabs, then goes in RK/malk at wound/bat, especially those of you who have postures. Sblades/attack on a master is one of the best setups and I generally play it on my human master and have even done it on my fade, when I don't have a rare. Granted as a trolloc you are dismounted, but just stack up on str teas and you'll get the same ob, it pretty much eats up everyone.
So basically when you're pking vs a large number of rogues who all refuse to take the slightest risk and are just spam fleeing around trying to get that satisfying blick message it just lends to killing PK. Rogues can be good to have with you in a group, especially if its a master since the damage is so sick, but if all the rogue is doing is sitting hidden in the room trying to go for stabs, it negates it.
While I don't know if its just the general mentality of the mud that has grown more conservative over time or if the rogue class just makes you less of a risk taker, it generally lends to shittier PK the more stabbers there are- which is the reason many of us are here.
For me the argument of if you don't like the way I play just leave rings kind of hollow, as I personally feel -especially now with such low numbers - that you have to give and take in PK. If PK has to end every time one of you show up, kind of how it was with Hress for a bit when he would repeatedly just kill all horses or when Darlana would spam contagion everyone on DS, you don't think that hurts the overall PK of the mud?
I'm not trying to dictate how people should play, but sometimes its probably worthwhile to try to see it from the other side: Would I enjoy fighting myself? If not, then the other side probably isn''t enjoying it either and it might be wise to revisit how you choose to Pk. ie. if I go sit at a double patrol in a crit v crit fight, would I myself enjoy fighting someone like that or would it be better to sit at the two lesser mobs one room away?
The thing with charge that makes it "okay" is that you aren't limited to spamfleeing around trying to run for charges, granted a few players choose to play it that way(most recent one would be Pial), but with a charge setup you generally also have bash practiced, which means you actually stick around and put up a fight - granted if you are using jade partisan/shocklance your bash is pretty abysmal.
What I don't understand is the lack of willingness to actually put up a fight as a rogue, those who try to go for a couple stabs, then goes in RK/malk at wound/bat, especially those of you who have postures. Sblades/attack on a master is one of the best setups and I generally play it on my human master and have even done it on my fade, when I don't have a rare. Granted as a trolloc you are dismounted, but just stack up on str teas and you'll get the same ob, it pretty much eats up everyone.
So basically when you're pking vs a large number of rogues who all refuse to take the slightest risk and are just spam fleeing around trying to get that satisfying blick message it just lends to killing PK. Rogues can be good to have with you in a group, especially if its a master since the damage is so sick, but if all the rogue is doing is sitting hidden in the room trying to go for stabs, it negates it.
While I don't know if its just the general mentality of the mud that has grown more conservative over time or if the rogue class just makes you less of a risk taker, it generally lends to shittier PK the more stabbers there are- which is the reason many of us are here.
For me the argument of if you don't like the way I play just leave rings kind of hollow, as I personally feel -especially now with such low numbers - that you have to give and take in PK. If PK has to end every time one of you show up, kind of how it was with Hress for a bit when he would repeatedly just kill all horses or when Darlana would spam contagion everyone on DS, you don't think that hurts the overall PK of the mud?
I'm not trying to dictate how people should play, but sometimes its probably worthwhile to try to see it from the other side: Would I enjoy fighting myself? If not, then the other side probably isn''t enjoying it either and it might be wise to revisit how you choose to Pk. ie. if I go sit at a double patrol in a crit v crit fight, would I myself enjoy fighting someone like that or would it be better to sit at the two lesser mobs one room away?