Players being dedicated to a clan identity really is a good point. Tower RP is definitely more on the 'forced' side, in that people do it the more because they have to, so it can still be fun and interesting, but it's certainly less 'organic'. But Tower also has a larger clan size for people to hold eachother accountable within a clan and to RP together to foster that clan identity. The game and clans in general are much more fun when you have friends to play with in that clan. It's why new players are often recommended to join a clan where others are active, for their first clan as opposed to trying to start with their ideal clan (other than the fact that most new players want to start by being Gaidin or Wolfbrother or Dragon Reborn).Jeia wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:20 amOn my bimonthly(ish)(sortanotreally) check of forums I had a read through of this.
Preface: In my short stint back early this year I was determined to do the Tower process. 'I can do it!' I told myself. I couldn't. Tower RP is an acquired taste that's for sure.
The Tower is very RP focused but I don't believe it's a good benchmark to use. There's an abundance of RP logs and whatnot because you have to have those logs to progress through the system. 95% of it is RP for a purpose, not RP for the sake of RP. It's a great system for fostering new players to a certain point, but it's mostly a drag in my experience.
In all the clans in all my time, CoL in their heyday were the best examples of that organic 'all the time in-character' RP. Somewhat one dimensional for sure but being in that clan was it's own ecosystem with regards to how you had to play while remaining inside the box the clans RP put you in.
Someone touched on it earlier, a strong clan identity with good buy in from the player(s) is what generated that natural RP. Alongside CoL think Eagles, QG, tear vs illian. That sort of thing.
What's eroded it over the years in my view is the blurring of the character identity with the players identity, since most everyone knows everyone and all their alts in the diminished world base.
It makes it exceedingly difficult to buy into the fantasy of the mysterious Aes Sedai/drunk Red Eagle/whatever when you've spent the previous half hour talking about xyz in discord main lounge with the player behind the character.
Its an unpopular opinion I guess because it equals work for the imms, but the only times in recent history I've really seen people buy into RP is during imm run events/quests etc. just as Feneon indicated.
The game is like a party without a host in a storyline sense, everyone milling around not exactly sure what they're supposed to be doing. Guess go look for PK again?
Not at all saying it's the imms fault but there's a good wedge of clans with literally nothing to do that's specific to the clan they're in and it's RP.
The world state is so static that for most it no doubt already feels pretty played out. When there's no tangible outcomes for anything roleplay wise it robs the player of the exact 'agency' you're referring to, especially within their own clans let alone anyone else's clan.
So, with all of that mind and to speak to Feneons conclusion. There needs to be a jumpstart that encourages players to want to buy into the clan, and I think treasurer's were/are great for that. Let players spend resources to upgrade their clans in whatever format that would look like. Tangible investment fosters pride in the product.
Think RP rewards but for clans themselves and not the individual player
I think many of us can look back at the former 'big names' from various clans, that really pushed for their clan and held together their clan's identity and direction. Maybe it felt like players had more control over their clan's destiny, as things seemed more fluid (for better or worse, depending on the situation) back in the day. A key aspect is that years ago players seemed to be more character-focused, and would 'main' a character, as opposed to so many that push to master then hop to the next character. That means that a lot of clans lose their consistent leadership at the top and that identity fades. Perhaps it's that there were always the churn & burn type of players, but they were less obvious when the playerbase was larger. Think of the impact on the who list of those that hop on, narrate 'PK?' then either log off, or PK for 30 minutes and then log off, versus others that are dedicated to playing a character and are staying on for longer periods RPing, leading a smob group, or actually interacting. Both types have a place, but the retention of the former and the loss of the latter spirals the who list lower. It's the problem of Seanchan, where you'd have someone log in, see nobody else on, then log off, and then a bit later someone else logs in, sees nobody, and then logs off too, but maybe they both would have stayed on and generated activity if the first person had stuck around a little bit longer. Players staying on keeps other players on.
It also feels to me that when most of the playerbase was younger with time to burn, players approached the game in a more casual manner, and ranking/mastering/getting X bonus wasn't the driving force for playtime. Players were more willing to RP for the sake of it, or start wars or stir up other politics and play just to play. Now, with an older playerbase most people likely have end-game goals they would like to achieve, and so they focus on those more intensely, while the less rewarding aspects that don't funnel to those specific goals fall to the wayside (such as more casual RP and non-immediately-rewarding activities). Players were more willing to take a risk or do something for the fun of it, like taking a chance on following a Huma, or Red Eagles warring with CoL, or random PRCs like Charging Boars, or playing dead-end MCs purely for the fun of it.
Just some random thoughts while reading this.
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