Revamping the Warranting Rules

[Firimei Lang]

I had a nice post all written out as I was going through the thread. Then my computer froze and the draft is no more. I'll try again in a few hours.

In such circumstances it is legitimately acceptable to smash [1] a small plate.

<3

Right now this week has been [22] stacks of broken dishes.

[Tamira]

some people cant help but flex their fists on the reins of power
some people cant help but use OOC info accross alts to warrant and clan
some people are reasonable
some people are not reasonable
some people think they know it all
some people care too much
some people dont give a flying f
some people dont get that this is a game
some people are just people
i like some other people


*nutshell*
oh noes! you called me a poohead! RIGHT.....!
If some people werent arseholes to some people being arseholes not much of this would be needed

[Taziar]

Lots of posts since my last look!

After reading everyone's ideas so far I am thinking maybe banishments are a bad idea, we have a coded system already in place that banishes a player and its called warrants. They do seem to be used the same way and maybe because people on the warranting side of it are not wanting to spend the time and effort required to enact the warrant process that banishments are used more often than warranting. Instead of creating more bureaucratic process to govern the use of banishments maybe we should just rely on warrant process we already have. Players that behave in a way to receive a banishment normally should instead get warrants that have in game consequences and hoops they have to jump through the get back to normal status. A lot of people always say this is a PK mud first (not necessarily my opinion) but more warrants means more player killing... the banishment philosophy seems to me to promote hand holding and a smurf mud like atmosphere.

Taziar

[Elysia]

Take 2... Going to segment it, post it, then edit my post and add the next bit. *glare computer*

Re: Some people saying that we're only having this discussion because of the current conflict. The warranting rules have been hated by some since we put them in. We had some that were phrased differently, but they vanished with the first forums. This version was written (and saved, thank goodness) some time during the previous installment of forums. Many people said that because of the rules being so complicated, they stopped hunting wanteds. As I've said before, I've always extended the invitation to come up with better ones, but no luck so far. Immortals had mentioned a few months ago too that we should look at them. Now we're all sitting idle, so maybe something good can come of it.

Re: Banishments, they aren't so bad really. Most often if you show up for crossrace pk even when banished, there is no problem. Then there is the fact that there are bookish banishments, such as channelers and Amadicia, so any rule restricting banishments would have to take that into account. Again, if you can come up with something good, I'm all ears.

Re: both banishments and warrants, it has always been the case that certain areas have had more bothersome warrants and banishments. When there were still raids in Andor, having an Andor warrant or banishment was annoying. Ditto for Eagle warrants and SS pk. However, other areas pretty much mean any warrant is a glorified mob enforced banishment. That's on RJ's map, though, not really something that can realistically be changed.

Re: specific rules for each clan, that would be a nightmare for imms if something is appealed and perhaps more importantly not make it clear to other players when they should appeal, leading to a lot more confusion and/or appeals, or injustices because people just say 'screw it'.

Re: clan vote on warrants, that isn't always practical, such as in the case of murdering mcs/fcs and having to catch the person on later to issue a warrant. It's not like we'd all enjoy having to dig through a list of "to be warranted" even if we highlighted the to be warranted people's names in our clients. It probably shouldn't be a standard rule.

When there was a lot of warrant abuse, issuing a warrant used to cost 1 qp. While I agree that a great many warrants are valid perhaps that could be something to consider? If a warrant was deemed legitimate, council could award that qp back? That would have a checks and balance system. But if council is the problem, that might not work. EDIT: and if there's only one councillor active and they issued the warrant, they get screwed.

[pial]

About the banishments Elysia, I know I've been warranted for showing up to help in DS PK while being banished so I'm not sure how true that specific one is. I know that several other CW have been warranted as well for helping in DS pk.

I think the problem with the warranting rules is the provision of allowing nations law's like Shienaran Lancer's law that allows them to warrant you if you insult them on narrates while you're in Amador. As Weir himself said, any insult can be met with a warrant. This allows for players within the Lancers, for example, to insult a player and if they wish to do it back to them they can eat a warrant. And in practice of course things aren't applied evenly or the specific nation's laws aren't enforced against certain people and are enforced against others. This is where the OOC nonsense comes in. For example, I hear about people's various plans to mess with my character before they make their moves because believe it or not I do get along with many people and some of those even happen to like me! For example someone who recently posted for the first time in this thread is one of the worst offenders of what I'd consider OOC tomfoolery across their alts.

Anyways, I think there's enough little loopholey things in the warranting rules that allow for unequal enforcement and a bunch of pick and choosing silly laws that can be used to warrant anyone. Then there's the fact that there are -no- rules on banishments that allow for someone to banish someone for a real life month or longer just because they want to.

Sati already pointed out exactly why banishments are troublesome in terms of trying to get someone to behave the way you want them to. Sati also seems to be knowledgeable about what actually works in terms of changing or promoting certain types of behavior. Throwing out banishments on a whim for indiscriminate amounts of time results in more problems than having a warrant due to the arbitrary nature of it. For example I could get warranted, ask for a pardon quest and do it, before a lot of these banishments are even half way through. Banishments might have been great and made sense when the mud had 200 people on but it's an antiquated practice that has very little benefits and is way too open ended for abusing. So for the people who are talking about in game consequences and in game actions, and trying to control people's behavior please give Sati's post another read, I think he's correct on that.

[Maegon]

No one with a warrant is ever really hunted, with exceptions of Male Chanellers.

There are several reasons why. People who issue warrants typically do not serve warrants in other sovereign countries. Most neutral areas are extremely wide open zones. A large majority of warranted, in my personal experience, have been stabbers\chargers that try to get off the random blick and then flee around open zones. It gets old fast, and I treat fleebie DS rogue pk in cara the same way.

Everytime we've had active wanted MCs, they were coming around looking for a dogfight. You had more options to attack in other nations, and it was actually real solid pk worth investing time into.

[Razhak]

Even back in the day when I bothered with warrants, they were bothersome. This is mainly because many of the behaviours also expressed on this thread..

If you warrant someone, he/she will go apeshit on you and claim abuse

If you try to serve a warrant (or worse.. actually kill the wanted!), he/she will whine because you are a mean person out to get easy qps/eq/exert power..

If you stop bothering with warranteds other then chasing them off your lands/turf, you get accused of being a limp-noodled moron because you dont serve the warrants of your clan (or perhaps more accurate: try to do something worthwhile with your scarce time, instead of chasing some loudmouth around open zones).

So basically it is you who gets bit one way or the other. Perhaps for all whiners here about the current warrant system we should for like half a year revert back to the system where you lost -where- if you had more then 3 warrants...

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but the Wotmud world is a feudal world. It is not fair, nor democratic, nor does the good guy always win. That has in my eyes always been one of the charms of it: your actions stick whether you like it or not. Piss off the wrong guy and you might be in trouble. Be buddies with the right guy and you might just get brushed by the law...

We are such hippies nowadays: all these new-age players who think they are entitled to things because they think their poop dont smell, but once they get hit on the nose with the consequences of their actions, they start screaming to high heavens.

[Petra]

We are such hippies nowadays: all these new-age players who think they are entitled to things because they think their poop dont smell, but once they get hit on the nose with the consequences of their actions, they start screaming to high heavens.

Don't forget about 'ze conspiracies'!

[livendros]

I am of the opinion that if you catch a banishment and think its unfair you should heed the banishment and appeal. If you break the banishment and get a warrant then ts.

It doesnt matter to me all this loophole nonsense. Ive played the bad guy before. Ive bad plenty of unjust warrants. Its a fun aspecr of the game to me to see borderline corruption or to see if someone will stand up for what is right.

I think the warrant whiners need to grow a tougher hide and stop doing dumb stuff to get a banishment in the first place. Or if thats what they absolutely want to do
.. then pay for it.

I guess itll never be like the old days.

Ignore ant spelling or grammar errors . Thumb typing.

[Razhak]

We are such hippies nowadays: all these new-age players who think they are entitled to things because they think their poop dont smell, but once they get hit on the nose with the consequences of their actions, they start screaming to high heavens.

Don't forget about 'ze conspiracies'!

There are no conspiracies..

Everyone already knows that Dagre is actually an artificial intelligence developed by Darpa. Everyone knows that the Creator is actually Bela. Everyone knows that Canadians are the real Illuminati on this mud. Everyone knows that the sole purpose of the Chosen clan is to keep the little man in check.