No need to recycle

[isabel]

There are certain things that people vote on, but there are a host of things that are just impractical to vote on. It is part of the daily work of government to just do it. Like you won't run a vote on whether sanitation workers should wear gloves or not. These are all civic issues - how do you organise the movement and processing of garbage. It's a not a political issue. Your cities are built in such a way that a lot of driving around is involved - most people aren't even aware of this as an urban planning decision, and did not actively choose this. It's the business of administrators and city corporation officials.

I mean the government doesn't even ask you all when it comes to foreign policy - how many people VOTED for what is actually happening? They may effectively be aligned with it - but would they actually choose it?

This talking to other people is often really a politics of deferral - you think that by convincing someone else something will happen. It gives you a feeling of 'doing something' because you experience an energy drain. Like who is Mronz even? How much does what he thinks about climate change actually MATTER? How much does what you or I think matter?

It's what we do that matters in this case - and what a lot of people are doing is just talking - not even TO each other, but AT each other. That same energy could actually go into DOING something constructive about it. And you cannot - cannot - change this without working at the community level. That's where this save the one bottle thing stuff just really dilutes everything. It creates that 'feel good' thing - I did something for climate change, I used my energy to fight this battle. And I want to say - no no no no NO. If you have the energy, then please put it into something that will MATTER. It's precious energy and willpower in the face of this nightmare we're going into.

And there are actually fantastic arguments to be made to the local city people - the costs of dealing with a cyclone/hurricane are Enormous. There is huge money and savings in garbage. It's their job to be efficient with all this.

[Landon]

This talking to other people is often really a politics of deferral - you think that by convincing someone else something will happen. It gives you a feeling of 'doing something' because you experience an energy drain. Like who is Mronz even? How much does what he thinks about climate change actually MATTER? How much does what you or I think matter?

It's what we do that matters in this case - and what a lot of people are doing is just talking - not even TO each other, but AT each other. That same energy could actually go into DOING something constructive about it. And you cannot - cannot - change this without working at the community level....If you have the energy, then please put it into something that will MATTER. It's precious energy and willpower in the face of this nightmare we're going into.

Not to be overly cynical, but is there really any difference between "convincing someone else (that you should actually care about climate change so) something will happen" and "convincing someone else (that you should be a super local lobbyist so) something will happen"? It's just another step in the ladder of progress. I completely agree with not spending all of your time on only convincing people, but it can't just be neglected either.

[Mronz]

I think Isabel does hit the nail on the head, a bit.
Just as I stated, I don't really care, I also stated, if recycling options were easily available, I would happily use them.

I think trying to get cities to find ways to implement at extreme low cost, convenient recycling measures, is much easier than trying to get people to actually buy into an entire cause.

[isabel]

This talking to other people is often really a politics of deferral - you think that by convincing someone else something will happen. It gives you a feeling of 'doing something' because you experience an energy drain. Like who is Mronz even? How much does what he thinks about climate change actually MATTER? How much does what you or I think matter?

It's what we do that matters in this case - and what a lot of people are doing is just talking - not even TO each other, but AT each other. That same energy could actually go into DOING something constructive about it. And you cannot - cannot - change this without working at the community level....If you have the energy, then please put it into something that will MATTER. It's precious energy and willpower in the face of this nightmare we're going into.

Not to be overly cynical, but is there really any difference between "convincing someone else (that you should actually care about climate change so) something will happen" and "convincing someone else (that you should be a super local lobbyist so) something will happen"? It's just another step in the ladder of progress. I completely agree with not spending all of your time on only convincing people, but it can't just be neglected either.

Yes, the point is - instead of convincing someone else to do something (deferral) you DO what you can do that would make an actual difference to the system. That is, you do the lobbying, or you become the city corporator who can take those decisions. Same as if your house was burning, you won't try to talk to someone (random) to do something. You would talk only to soempne who can actually do something (firemen) and/or do it yourself. This IS our only home and if we are serious about it being on fire then we have to think about systems change.

And if you can't do anything - which frankly a lot of people can't because of what you guys said about a huge system in place by certain corporations - then at least we aren't diluting. For me personally, ever since I stopped wasting my energy on fighting the system at some individual level I started to actually have the time and energy to look at what might even be something worthwhile. I realised that for me personally it's so far out of my comfort level to go talk to city people, or even go sit on a garbage truck and see how the waste system even works (and the minute you do it you see how ineffectual individual stuff is without a system..). There are garbage mafias here (comparable to your Koch brothers thing) that stop any actual change because they make so much money from the problem. So how do I address that? I and whoever else has the caring thing kicking in would be better off trying to convince those mafias that there's More money in a different system, or that this system is going to screw them over too, etc. Maybe that's not even possible. Then I need to figure out is there a stronger voice with which I can convince them, or like the lawyer friend did, push on it from the side of existing laws, etc.

Simple things like - which people in the government are already working on this stuff. How can I support them? My mother for instance tried to get solar power in at a national level for certain places and she had a lot of power in the system but she was ultimately blocked at the level of ministers who vetoed it. She had to drop that at that point but that was close to being a pretty big change. I'd much rather prep and have a strategic conversation with someone in power on this stuff than whoever randoms.

[Lykan]

I started responding then decided I should read the middle pages and not just the first and last. Then I read the middle pages. And realized what a firetrucking waste of time this is :p I actually cannot tell if half of the responses are trolls or just amazingly ignorant views posted sincerely.

I agree with Isabel - get active.

[arkaza]

I didn't bother reading the middle since I already know what's there.

You argue symantics.
You practice identity politics.
You half-ass cite proven, eroneous info.
You NEVER stray from the narrative.

The facts? This dung has been going on for decades under different names. Use the google.

Weather modification is real, else it wouldn't be a subject IN TREATIES. Use the google.

The majority of people give a dung about their environment no matter what political affiliation.

POLITICS DIVIDE YOU because divided we are WEAK.

Divided no more.

[Atienne]

I didn't bother reading the middle since I already know what's there.

You argue symantics.
You practice identity politics.
You half-ass cite proven, eroneous info.
You NEVER stray from the narrative.

The facts? This dung has been going on for decades under different names. Use the google.

Weather modification is real, else it wouldn't be a subject IN TREATIES. Use the google.

The majority of people give a dung about their environment no matter what political affiliation.

POLITICS DIVIDE YOU because divided we are WEAK.

Divided no more.

[Maghus]

Excuse me if I am wrong, isn't CO2 really good for plant life? Maybe humans time is up and it is now time for the reign of the plants again!

[Tamira]

And suddenly dumbfuck Seymour realised that all of the trees were getting cut down...?
Civilisations come and go. We aren't the first and sadly for the planet and creatures on it, we wont be the last. As a species, we'll get what we deserve.

Also, I love this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHK6wf ... rt_radio=1

[Maghus]

And suddenly dumbfuck Seymour realised that all of the trees were getting cut down...?
Civilisations come and go. We aren't the first and sadly for the planet and creatures on it, we wont be the last. As a species, we'll get what we deserve.

Also, I love this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHK6wf ... rt_radio=1

your link was invalid. I got you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yesyhQkYrQM