War system questions

[Octavio]

Who gives a firetruck? Elysia said to talk to your Immortal. Not everything in this game is or has ever meant to be on a level playing field. one clan’s immortal awards more for a treaty than another is no different than one clan’s council writing and issuing quests on a more consistent basis than another. Stop derailing a thread about a war system with this BS about balancing treaty rewards.

Obviously I give a firetruck. And the Imm's brought up the fact that the treaties ARE a part of the war game so I guess it's not a derailing.

[Octavio]

Talked a bit on discord and have a better understanding of how the treaties are part of the war game now. If the imms wanted to share how they think the treaties are part of the overall structure of the war game, especially concerning unclanned players, that would be good. If not, let's move on then.

[Elysia]

Treaties and politics have always existed, so this is nothing new. However, two forum deaths caused many treaties and agreements to vanish off the face of the earth. The repeated loss caused players to give up on making them in much the same way not every clan has drafted their local laws.

I don't see how I can explain how they fit with the war game, as they are entirely player driven and few treaties are the same. Case in point, *ol negotiating with Thiefbane that the *ol applicants are not to be hunted, while neither Red Eagles nor Lion Warden had done so.

Historically, there have also been many treaty variations, varying from mutual defense pacts, various incarnations involving the rights to hunt wanteds on eachother's lands and/or cities, other agreements about certain deliveries to be made in exchange for so and so and so on. Each will have a different impact.

It's a dynamic world and players will be able to leave their mark moreso than ever before. Those who can quickly adapt to a changing world will always have an easier time in the game, e.g. temporary changes. I realize that takes some getting used to, but how about everyone plays the game, warring party or not, instead of peppering forums with questions about hypotheticals?

[daal]

Based on previous comments by the Imm's the treaties have been in place for months and they are a part of the war game. Then we hear there are bonuses attached to the treaties for those clanned who do not fight in the war. We know what the bonuses are if you choose to fight, qps, demands meet, etc. We do not know what the bonuses are for not fighting because of a treaty. Are they comparable? Are they the same for every single clan? Does every clan member who is not fighting because of a treaty get the same bonus for not fighting vs going to war? Are there penalties for breaking a treaty?

Nothing nefarious here, just a lot of unanswered questions. Especially about how treaties fit into the entire picture. Treaties should be detailed in public, bonuses for those treaties should also be disclosed.

I'm going to answer your questions in order based on my own experiences. No the rewards are not comparable. I don't know if they are the same for each clan, but I imagine it has to do with the complexity of the finished product and requires a lot of subjective evaluation on the part if the awarding immortal. No one gets a bonus for fighting or not fighting, there are just different opportunities to pursue while playing. I would assume if you break a treay it would be entirely up to the offended clan/nation to determine a new course of action to pursue.

Basically, clans are in total control of their own fate, and it's up to them to determine which direction they take. If you don't like the direction a clan is taking you are welcome to try and change it, either from within, or externally through the new war system.

[Neveyan]

These just seems like small issues that will be hashed out as we go forward, this is the first war we've seen with this new system - it only creates opportunities for more diplomacy etc in the future.

Exactly. See this as an oppertunity for clans to RP. To shape the world they live in as their own. This is an amazing side effect (one of many). Well done imms, best thing I seen in 19yrs of playing. Just hope it persists and can be marketed.

[Rentris]

I'm going to answer your questions in order based on my own experiences. No the rewards are not comparable. I don't know if they are the same for each clan, but I imagine it has to do with the complexity of the finished product and requires a lot of subjective evaluation on the part if the awarding immortal. No one gets a bonus for fighting or not fighting, there are just different opportunities to pursue while playing. I would assume if you break a treay it would be entirely up to the offended clan/nation to determine a new course of action to pursue.

Basically, clans are in total control of their own fate, and it's up to them to determine which direction they take. If you don't like the direction a clan is taking you are welcome to try and change it, either from within, or externally through the new war system.

Exactly this. Well said.

[raal]

Another Option:

Has been brought up that city defenses give an advantage to the defenders if they are powerful (Amador/Falme/Caemlyn being significantly more defend-able then Emond's Field).
Instead of upping EF for example, you could add war points on key mobs in those cities (Amador King 50, Caemlyn throneroom 50, Omerna 25, Fanico 25). Examples, obviously would be whatever made sense. If you did that, a large group from say EF could really counter the many small raids by taking out higher value targets. Likewise, in larger conflicts (Falme/Amador for instance) it would open up possibilities for larger swings either way.

[hasp]

That is a good idea if they kinda made throne rooms equal maybe?

[Paj]

I would recommend a progression of difficulty.

Patties x points.
Gate guards/patties x points.
Named patties 2x points.
Generals 3x points.
Clan heads 5x points.

Though other countries may not have named patties like tallanvor and fanico.

High risk high reward.

Something for the next iteration of wars.

Next war lets see mobile patties on the rampage!

[Elysia]

That is a good idea if they kinda made throne rooms equal maybe?

We aren't going to do that, because that would mess with multiple fade quests.

Re: making targets out of Fanico etc., I'm leery of doing that because not every city or area has one of those. The generals were added because not every city has a hittable clan leader. E.g. Niall is not normally hittable, nor is Jorran. Not to mention, and this is important for long term sustainability, there's already about 170 individual turn in entries of enemy scalps and general hits involved in the current conflicts, so with every other target worth war points added, the tally becomes more difficult and time consuming. It's bad enough that people turn in the wrong scalps to the general, so I have to go through all of those, too.

Also, the 30 qps worth of war quests were put in, in order to motivate people to hit the Fanico's and patrols of this world.