The Wheel of TIme Season 1 Episode 1, 2, 3 Discussion Thread

[isabel]

Nice read that..good to see him not just promoting everything. The grim for the sake of grim and shock is such a great point. Especially early on it would have been nice to have a different feel since the books get so much heavier.

@kordin- I thought everything seems pretty consistent with the books so far in terms of major plot points, mat gambling, Perrin wolves, egwene pro-tower etc etc. Rand certainly seems marked as the dragon reborn in terms of looking different, yelling at moiraine etc. Egwene cannot possibly be the DR because in the books she already is way too many things (second only to rand, on par with Mat maybe). Also it would remove the need to have male channelers as a big grey area deal.

Rand has nothing "different" going for him so far. He's the good straightforward guy who works hard and just wants a normal stable life at home. Letting on he's the DR is tantamount to killing -all- the book suspense in the early. And they're already doing that a bit by literally telling them - one of you is a male channeler probably and no one really reacts to that in a life is over way.

Also I think when the series develops more and we care more about the characters these early episodes will feel very different.

Another challenge I think is the problem of the protagonist for such a big cast. You have to give the audience soemone they can latch on to and root for (like Jon snow or daenrys). There's so many characters here that no one is getting enough time. We could have rooted for nynaeve but she basically magically crossed taren ferry and shadae logoth and sneaked up on warder etc and we don't see how (I had flashbacks of Gollum following Frodo) or even why because we don't see her interact with any of the men, only egwene - and okay moiraine took her apprentice, that's not as high a motivation as you're taking three boys who the town is super fond of for male channeler inquisition). We could have rooted for Perrin - he's being so kind and supportive etc, but he's already done soemthing really terrible so he's more a threat than anything at this point. We could have rooted for egwene but she's kind of going in a different direction from rand who is also in the protagonist character and also doesn't get much time. That leaves Mat who is probably the best hero candidate at this point - comes from a difficult home, very agential/active in trying to improve his bad situation, is interesting/charming, good hearted (he steals but apologises /explains it's for his sister's), (side note - I think a scene with nynaeve/others showing how fond they all are of mat would have been powerful in establishing him as someone who despite tough home life has strong roots in the two rivers)..but again time and competition from other protagonists.

Maaybe it would have been good for them to really center the story around Rand and have others play off him or maybe that will happen later.

[krul]

ITS SO GOOD ASJFHJAKHSFHJAKSHFJK AHSJKFHJKAHSFH

[Alison]

Loved it.

The pace is definitely well placed with a series like this. Overall they hooked me with the channeling. Duh.

I was screaming. Flip yeah fireballs .

Also for some odd reason i thought that trolloc chasing Nynaeve was *Puny*. So i named him puny in my head.

Also the whole deal of them eating each other. Them trollocs. Nice little detail. Rafe did a great job. Setting up the world is an immense job.

And Padan Fain. Dude straight up looks the part from the get go. Seriously looks like he will do the whole chasing rand bit later on.

Was seriously wondering when they will introduce the whole Lews Therin thing.

Rosemund doing the "The Wheel weaves and ages come and go. "

Fitting for the series. Will make the battle with that forsaken later on the more compelling.

Perrin fits the role perfectly. Kind of like the wife dead story. Hopefully that will impact faile later on.

The girl playing the Darkfriend. Perfectly done. Anyone notice rand one powering the "iron door " that cannot be broken?

[Kordin]

Nice read that..good to see him not just promoting everything. The grim for the sake of grim and shock is such a great point. Especially early on it would have been nice to have a different feel since the books get so much heavier.

RJ had a slow (sometimes painfully slow) way of developing the plot and characters, and changing their foundations, their beginnings to speed up the plot will most likely end up a disaster that barely has anything to do with the original story.

@kordin- I thought everything seems pretty consistent with the books so far in terms of major plot points, mat gambling, Perrin wolves, egwene pro-tower etc etc. Rand certainly seems marked as the dragon reborn in terms of looking different, yelling at moiraine etc. Egwene cannot possibly be the DR because in the books she already is way too many things (second only to rand, on par with Mat maybe). Also it would remove the need to have male channelers as a big grey area deal.

There's not a lot of consistency from my POV;

• a trolloc entering the pool and Nyaneve being a Manentheren Navy SEAL

• the boys being fairly self confident, when in the books they are all saps and clumsy and it's a huge part of their character throughout the books, especially in the first few and when it comes to interaction with other female characters, both key charactersand side characters

• Mat was a trickster first and foremost, the way they portrayed his family is just a BS typical story trope that doesn't fit him at all if they intend to stick to his original character progression. Not to mention that whole "Mat steals from his own village to sell to his fence, who just happens to be Fain"...Mat is a goofy trickster who acts before thinking it through, not "a prick" as they put in the show and made his mom a broken betrayed bitter housewife who doesn't take care of his sisters and his father a local village creep preying on younger women

• changing the Prophecies from "He" to "He or She" is a significant change, as well as just putting it out there as if it's no big deal to speak of such things

"The Karatheon Cycle, – Thom said curtly. Rand blinked. The Prophecies of the Dragon. – Nobody tells the ... those stories in the Two Rivers. Not in Emond's Field, anyway. The Wisdom would skin them alive, if they did. "

On the slopes of Dragonmount shall he be born,
born of a maiden wedded to no man.
He will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood.
When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth,
he will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world.
For he shall come like the breaking dawn,
and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew.

The Pattern requires that he be a male channeler and must be at Tarmon Gai'don or the forces of the Light will not stand a chance; even his presence does not assure victory, however, only the possibility of one. Prophecy says that he would break all bonds and bring suffering to the earth. It is commonly expected that in doing so he will also bring a new Breaking of the World. Due to Lews Therin Telamon's infamy, for better or for worse, the tale of the Dragon Reborn is known well even in remote villages, though often distorted beyond recognition. There are also villages or lands where even talking about the Prophecies is forbidden or avoided. E.g. Emond's Field. That's why Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Nynaeve know nothing about the Karaethon Cycle and cannot put pieces together, cannot recognise events happening around them until they learn about the Prophecies.

• same with just saying out loud "Dark One" as that's not a big deal

• somehow they all seem to know very much about channeling, more than a peasant child from a "backwater place" would know...I.E. Perrin saying "I don't suppose you could channel us some food and water"

• Tinkers greet people by setting up a front-and-rear ambush????

Rand has nothing "different" going for him so far.

He is already significantly different than in the EotW.

Another challenge I think is the problem of the protagonist for such a big cast. You have to give the audience soemone they can latch on to and root for (like Jon snow or daenrys).

Daenerys and Jon weren't big from the get go in GoT, and event GoT cut out and changed a lot of things, to the point that in the last season it was painfully obvious how the show runners had no clue what to do without some kind source of information which they can then bend and twist because - "TV adaptation". Seems more like an excuse than valid reason to follow the original source as closely as possible.

We could have rooted for nynaeve but she basically magically crossed taren ferry and shadae logoth and sneaked up on warder etc and we don't see how

The way Warders, Aes Sedai and *oL are portrayed is another big inconsistency from the actual WoT. Remember how Ny came back into the plot in the books? Both Moiraine and Lan knew she way following them, observing from the trees and then they yelled that she can come out and join them, pissing her off (again).

Then the HoL just dangling those AS rings...does he have some kind of anti-weave Angreal on him?
The CoL Commander tells Moiraine TO FIND AN AES SEDAI as only them can heal a wound like hers?! CoL label anyone who can channel - a Darkfriend....so it's consistent that a CoL Commander tells a random lady to find a Darkfriend to heal her wound?????

The way they made their uniforms is just...cheap B-category fantasy work....barely any armor, riding through forests and mud but the robes are squeaky clean white no matter what...a minor peeve, but still....feels and looks just cheap...like old Western movies where the character rides into town after riding in the desert for weeks, and he's clean shaven, no sunburn, clean clothes, perfect teeth and not a single issue with health after all that...

We could have rooted for Perrin - he's being so kind and supportive etc, but he's already done soemthing really terrible so he's more a threat than anything at this point.

Something that makes no sense whatsoever. From him being married (as he was just as bad as Rand when it comes to interacting with women) to him killing his (allegedly) DF (what the hell, if thats true....)
Again, their slow development as characters made sense in the books, speeding it up for the show makes no sense unless they just wanna fill the series with GoT-like show, awe and gore....because...thats the story I guess?

Maaybe it would have been good for them to really center the story around Rand and have others play off him or maybe that will happen later.

They are the story, The Fellowship of the Wheel.
Why would the story need one protagonist, or two, or three? Why can't they all be the focus? It worked for LOTR didn't it? GoT had a ton of protagonists throughout the show as well.

And whats with Thom not being in EF for the festival, but only appearing in that random mining whateverplace with Dana the Darkfriend (omfg, seriously...lol) and then as a GLEEman, performs a depressing song as if Rafe logged on WoTMUD, saw a Gleeman perform, and went "that was horrible....its in the show".

Character origin stories changed
Prophecies changed
Events changed
Core rules of the world changed
Shadar Logoth - no Mordeth, Mashadar is....an ink? instead of a silvery mist

There's not a lot of consistency so far....not unless the bar is set so low that it's just;
Has Aes Sedai? - check
Has Warders? - check
Has trollocs? - check
Yeah, it's WoT!

Did not expect every single page from the books, or every little event and interaction. But also did not expect to watch something only resembling WoT being sold as WoT.

I just fail to understand the logic of - "let's make a show based on a best-selling, world popular, beloved fantasy series....but we'll change stuff because we know the world and story better than the writer did, who made up wrote the whole thing.".

[Aira]

It may not be as a big a change as it seems. And I literally made this up on the spot.

On the slopes of Dragonmount shall the Dragon be reborn,
born of a maiden wedded to no man.
The Dragon will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood.
When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth,
The Dragon will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world.
For the Dragon shall come like the breaking dawn,
and shatter the world again with their coming, and make it anew.

[Kordin]

It may not be as a big a change as it seems. And I literally made this up on the spot.

On the slopes of Dragonmount shall the Dragon be reborn,
born of a maiden wedded to no man.
The Dragon will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood.
When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth,
The Dragon will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world.
For the Dragon shall come like the breaking dawn,
and shatter the world again with their coming, and make it anew.

The Prophecies of the Dragon indicated that Callandor needed to be used during Tarmon Gai'don to battle the Dark One.

Callandor is a male sa'angreal in the form of a crystal sword and the only known artifact being able to amplify the True Power.

[Asandra]

Callandor is a powerful sa'angreal in the form of a crystal sword and the only known artifact being usable by both male and female channelers, and able to amplify the True Power.

Actually makes sense as well, as the True Power is also for both.

[Kryyg]

I think the show is alright. The trolloc CGI/styling is awful. I kept thinking the orcs in LOTR looked so much better and realistic and that movie was like 20 years ago.

The channeling was ok..was wondering if one AS makes this much CGI/effects flying around wtf are they going to do in the battles with 100's.

Mat being a thief is after he picks up the dagger so I chalked it up to that. Prior to thieving bits he already made comments to Rand that he is starting to change.

Disliked Perrin's wife thing, the wolf introduction is interesting, I keep waiting for Elyas to show up.

No explanation on the importance of the heron mark blade which is remarked upon by Lan, the whitecloaks, and four kings in the books.

Surprisingly, I actually liked the Whitecloaks so far.

Finally, Lan hasn't called Rand a sheepherder even once!! What the dung! It's one of the lines that remains throughout Rand's journey from beginning to end.

Overall I am supremely underwhelmed but hoping for the best.

[Jestin]

Watched the first episode, really disappointed. The next got this is not

[Jestin]

Does anyone know why Moiraine has to do a dance sequence in order to weave?