Tarendrelle/Damane mobs

[Shinobi]

Seanchan side has had a crutch since the race was implemented. After trolloc rogues seanchan side is for dung tier players.

This thread is ridiculous. So much discussion about the power of mobs. Is there actually any PK in the SW? The side should have just been permanently ended and this mutated nonsense should just end. Keep the zones and mobs and turn it into a smob chain area that DS and LS can both access and fight each other over.

Truth hammer hitting nails.

Also, apparently rakens are free?

[Ominas]

So much to respond to, I'll break it down.

Lunal is incredibly strong and it's pretty shocking how much you're underplaying a no channel smob, which is about as top tier as reasonable, non-channeling support gets.

No, Lunal is a hard to kill smob, The damage he does is not nearly as significant as say Tallanvor or Fanico. And its a dismount room which could be good or bad. There is a reason some mob support just isnt used as much. For the same reason Jaufre in the tower to the East is not used as LS mob support (Though lunal is much stronger than jaufre). But its the location that makes him so unappealing to me.

For example, the Kaf W of wb could be decent small mob support for SS to use, but its in a dismount room after a set of aggro mobs and is easily blocked.

You have some basic facts wrong (1 exit, for example) and it doesn't really work "both ways" because in any given fight, seanchan get to dictate when Lunal becomes a factor.

Nope Lunal is a 1 exit room. If you are referring to the two doors d n and d s of Lunal as far as exits from the Lunal area, sure. But no I was referring the the fact that Lunal has a single exit and therefor can be easily blocked into or out of, If you fight there and win LS can easily flee and sit 1n.

It does work both ways. The benefit of going to Lunal is much lower if you are a Damane or are pking with one. Yes you may get to decide when or if to use him, but for me using lunal in a 1 vs 5 situation (as I quite literally did yesterday) can easily become a death trap.

If you can't PK numbers without relying on a smob-level wandering channeling mobs that take about three stabs to kill now, you should just leave. I feel the same way about the BF dreadlord, though that seems to be a lot less ridiculous these days. There are strategies for fighting outnumbered without relying on something like that, but I understand if you can't/won't do that -- it's still not a good reason for having mobs like this near what is already a very safe smob nearby for seanchan to use.

There are strategies for disabling damane pairs quite easily. Though I do agree it could definitely be replaced with non-channeling support of some kind.

I do fight outnumbered quite regularly. It comes with the territory of playing Seanchan these days, The damane mob is used as a last resort when already low after fighting heavily outnumbered elsewhere. In every instance of the mob being used it has been after getting low fighting at least 6-7 ls.

You seem to be running on the assumption that SS ONLY use damane mob support in TD. Which is most definitely not the case. I personally would like to see the damane in TD made stationary as my main concern is the fact that it chases and can be in almost any room in TD to catch people unaware.

The Damane is usually used when SS is already low hps from fighting elsewhere and the option is to run to TD beaten or run southwest. Running southwest almost always ends pk. People do not bother chasing even to EF in my experience. There has been one instance in which I was chased west beaten recently and it was by a Wolfbrother after they and an Accepted tried to kill me after I was low fighting another and I moved TD to fight them. The damane was dead at this point and given that I was beat/crit in lunal with the WB breaking my defense leaving was the only option.

This is mostly correct. Not sure where some of you are coming from with what you’re saying against it. She says something needs to be done with damane which is what everyone is essentially saying.

Aloisa and Rig are the most correct however. Channeling mobs are an issue that should have been long solved. There are quick and easy ways to replace the mobs that do channel with something else. Or as others have suggested just remove what they are capable of weaving. Nothing should be able to blitz you like they potentially can. Especially in an area like that.

Tekela has bingo wings. Shinobi looks like dad breath. Kryyg doesn’t know zones south cara. Boom roasted.

[Espen]

I'd like to think that I typically only use damane against overwhelming numbers, or when very low.

Prior to Vannor posting this thread I yelled to him some advice on how he's giving dung pk staying healthy in a football zone for hours on end - and gave the example that while I bait to Tarendrelle (I certainly do) I typically do so at low hps. I'm not saying battered vs 1 opponent; I'm saying 1 hit from dead vs 1 opponent, crit vs 2-3 opponents, beat if theres an fc and they let me see them before I eat a bash and just..die. LS pkers who actually fight without overwhelming numbers should be able to attest to killing me regularly outside of TD.

After making these comments immediately went TD just below healthy because Vannor Cowl and Torag rocked up doing nothing but fleestabs -this was however as a very specific commentary on the pk, which I advised.



Yes I agree and would like all channelers leashed, and channeling mobs to be removed from game; in the meantime this is the support we have.



The comments about raken don't match what I've been told, or have observed, beyond being able to fly for which there are significant issues, and the pairing of those comments with qp 'cost' of killing someone's raken I can't tell if they're deliberately as bait, or if the players are just so self entitled that they're blind to how making the comments portrays them.

The arguments for or against Lunal are pretty comprehensive - and please note I've been pking sometimes for hours every day at TD and seen one, perhaps two, instances of the damane machine gunning like it did to Geoff - in each case the entire group had engaged on the damane, and I believe it was due to this.



I would love for ice spike and fireball to be removed from channeling mobs; a double FS just isn't that scary - a double spike can kill you when you're not even batt yet.

I would also love for damane to be tied to a specific spot (or two)

Elysia - anecdotally mobol channeling is horrible. I have multiple logs of trying to hit kandori fort with 12+ and having 3-4 people just /die/ outright to the Dreadlord going nuts with its mobol, likewise the stuff at blodfest; Restricting wandering channeling mobs (or preferably all channeling mobs) to short weaves will take the meat out of peoples arguments while leaving them deadly in the right circumstance.



What I'd really love to see is a third mob grouped on each ent (right now I try fight at the ents until opponents clear them, then backgate and frontgate, then well, depending on hps/fleelag, and then damane) - because they are /very/ weak and easy to kill right now, and the suldam to be following the ogier at well (damane is now stationary unless ogier die, but also relatively safe from just being charged/stabbed dead, and also isn't just a super simple group walks in all kill suldam to kill the damane since they'll also split to ogiers.. which given what I saw in the 'machine gun' examples to date, should also stop 'machine gunning' from happening). I'd personally also really like Corlm to agro humans or assist seanchan or seanchan mobs, or get another officer mob inside frontgate as damane won't be able to wander there anymore.

This will give SS a stronger chance to fight outside of their support (and give LS a better chance of killing them since they'll actually fight there), it'll give paranoid and careful LS players a way to just stay /out/ of the damanes room, it'll give SS a tactical advantage with dlines while fighting in TD to help compensate for how they don't have unpredictable damage wandering around.


With reference to the water connection - it seems to match the maps pretty closely; it has a significant move cost to use; its easy to plan around; there are over 6 loads for canoes/rafts etc. within around a tic from that zone; its an outright dangerous spot to get to if you actually try to stop people in any way whatsoever, requiring to pass chokes with shitty flees.. If you're failing to capitalise on any of these, that failure is with you. Let alone with respect to if the exits are blocked inside TD its not an achievable escape route.

[Torag]

I'd like to think that I typically only use damane against overwhelming numbers, or when very low.

Prior to Vannor posting this thread I yelled to him some advice on how he's giving dung pk staying healthy in a football zone for hours on end - and gave the example that while I bait to Tarendrelle (I certainly do) I typically do so at low hps. I'm not saying battered vs 1 opponent; I'm saying 1 hit from dead vs 1 opponent, crit vs 2-3 opponents, beat if theres an fc and they let me see them before I eat a bash and just..die. LS pkers who actually fight without overwhelming numbers should be able to attest to killing me regularly outside of TD.

After making these comments immediately went TD just below healthy because Vannor Cowl and Torag rocked up doing nothing but fleestabs -this was however as a very specific commentary on the pk, which I advised.



Yes I agree and would like all channelers leashed, and channeling mobs to be removed from game; in the meantime this is the support we have.



The comments about raken don't match what I've been told, or have observed, beyond being able to fly for which there are significant issues, and the pairing of those comments with qp 'cost' of killing someone's raken I can't tell if they're deliberately as bait, or if the players are just so self entitled that they're blind to how making the comments portrays them.

The arguments for or against Lunal are pretty comprehensive - and please note I've been pking sometimes for hours every day at TD and seen one, perhaps two, instances of the damane machine gunning like it did to Geoff - in each case the entire group had engaged on the damane, and I believe it was due to this.



I would love for ice spike and fireball to be removed from channeling mobs; a double FS just isn't that scary - a double spike can kill you when you're not even batt yet.

I would also love for damane to be tied to a specific spot (or two)

Elysia - anecdotally mobol channeling is horrible. I have multiple logs of trying to hit kandori fort with 12+ and having 3-4 people just /die/ outright to the Dreadlord going nuts with its mobol, likewise the stuff at blodfest; Restricting wandering channeling mobs (or preferably all channeling mobs) to short weaves will take the meat out of peoples arguments while leaving them deadly in the right circumstance.



What I'd really love to see is a third mob grouped on each ent (right now I try fight at the ents until opponents clear them, then backgate and frontgate, then well, depending on hps/fleelag, and then damane) - because they are /very/ weak and easy to kill right now, and the suldam to be following the ogier at well (damane is now stationary unless ogier die, but also relatively safe from just being charged/stabbed dead, and also isn't just a super simple group walks in all kill suldam to kill the damane since they'll also split to ogiers.. which given what I saw in the 'machine gun' examples to date, should also stop 'machine gunning' from happening). I'd personally also really like Corlm to agro humans or assist seanchan or seanchan mobs, or get another officer mob inside frontgate as damane won't be able to wander there anymore.

This will give SS a stronger chance to fight outside of their support (and give LS a better chance of killing them since they'll actually fight there), it'll give paranoid and careful LS players a way to just stay /out/ of the damanes room, it'll give SS a tactical advantage with dlines while fighting in TD to help compensate for how they don't have unpredictable damage wandering around.


With reference to the water connection - it seems to match the maps pretty closely; it has a significant move cost to use; its easy to plan around; there are over 6 loads for canoes/rafts etc. within around a tic from that zone; its an outright dangerous spot to get to if you actually try to stop people in any way whatsoever, requiring to pass chokes with shitty flees.. If you're failing to capitalise on any of these, that failure is with you. Let alone with respect to if the exits are blocked inside TD its not an achievable escape route.

This is a novel I wont be reading.

[Elysia]

Elysia - anecdotally mobol channeling is horrible. I have multiple logs of trying to hit kandori fort with 12+ and having 3-4 people just /die/ outright to the Dreadlord going nuts with its mobol, likewise the stuff at blodfest; Restricting wandering channeling mobs (or preferably all channeling mobs) to short weaves will take the meat out of peoples arguments while leaving them deadly in the right circumstance.

I know channeling mobs are horrible. I'm the one who removed most from Tar Valon, Thakan'dar and Ruined Keep.

The problem is that we can't make mobs weave what we want them to. Never have been, it's also why xxx channeling mob can't offer Armor, cures and whatnot. There's a few tiers of weaves they have that correspond with the mob's clanlevel, but until recently, we had no way of knowing what clanlevel did what. The problem is also made worse that if clanlevel is too low, players start leading them and then you have 'bad' channeling mobs being lead about, which is probably worse than what we have now.

The only real solution wrt weaves is coding, really. Either through timers or through allowing us to select which weaves a mob has. Or to allow us to mobol if x happens, weave y.

[Elysia]

Fun fact, according to my logs, I set sul'dam and damane mobs to level 60/59 respectively for the Saniago Torres quest. I never realized they were still that level, the first I heard about them being higher level than before was here. *peers at the Seanchan who never reported this and shouts 'Off with yer heads!*

At any rate, I set them back to their original levels, purged all existing mobs, then forced a mud-wide repop, so all is well in Randland again.

[Aureus]

As discussed on discord, I moved the damane and sul'dam to Lunal, made that room channel-able, and added a tracking Seanchan commander patrol with 3 fighters in its old place that will wander the village.

So far, so good: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=15245