The Solution to Basin and Please Stop Monetizing DS

[Lord Pe]

All the Basin really adds is ganking expers. I was super happy to see it pretty well go way back when. Another thing that was coming up in this post is the alternate ways to get QPS. It has gotten completely out of hand. I would rather see some form of equipment reward for questing rather than QPS. That would definitely Drive player kill into the main way of advancing.

[Razhak]

I have been out and about this game for about 19 years now (god..) without any long hiatus (3 months last years due to personal circumstances, and during the big crashes in the mid 2010's).

It would likely be impossible, but perhaps resetting the mud for a week to the 2001-2002 settings would be very illustrative. People would see/realise how much the mud has been smurfed down, with a regression of both sides to an ever increasing boring mean. I for one would love to run around with my 2001-2006 skillsets as a fade If people think that remorts are overpowered now, think again after that.

Alot of what this mud made so much fun was the constant and sometimes very unbalanced danger. Overcoming certain players or characters actually was a huge deal (I killed a fade! Or we took down an AS pair?! I killed a master and can now use his master weapon untill reboot!!)

This smurfing down of the mud creates boredom in some (where is the thrill from back when I started..), and a sense of entitlement in others (How dare you kill/trap/hit/weave/tickle/wiggle/etc me!?!) because they think certain things are unfair.

The Basin change, albeit not game-breaking, is just another symptom in this repeating cycle. I am feeling this is because most of our higher up imms are more comfortable with LS and especially LS RPing, and most changes lately are indeed turning us more and more to a PvE-RP mud. However, like I always say: on DS my RP is to PK! Not to snarl, growl, sniff Byrg's ass or whatever. It is to kill humans (or seanchans, I am not very discriminating).

I feel to make the mud more enjoyable, it needs to be made MORE dangerous, instead of less dangerous. This could be done in alot of ways: but removing scouting tools like Basin, will not manage this.

Without reiterating alot of good points made by Spyder, I do agree on his assessment that DS is monetized to much (be it gold coins, tokens) and DS is getting alot less "love" then LS. Remember: if LSers are less dependent on PK to get qps, DS will also much likely get less PK, which immediatly impacts the raison d'etre of DS in itself.

Kind regards,

Razhak

[Rark]

There is no incentive to pk besides maybe mastering a bit faster

Hasn't this always been the case? PK is enjoyable for PKs sake and there's plenty of different reasons for people to do it. If you want to get on one of the lists you go and PK, if you want to upgrade your equipment its a lot easier to go PK and hope you kill someone with some pretty stuff, if you want to rank up faster go PK, if you enjoy the back and forth of PvP go PK. Now if you rather just enjoy the social aspect of being in a WoT world with a couple mates and don't care for PK, you have options as well.

As to Basin being one of the greatest tools for raiding, I guess I somewhat disagree. Sure it made it easier to sniff out a smob group if you had enough blood, but I've personally never really used it more than a handful of times, my raiding mainly just consisted of me grabbing a couple trollocs then going south, find what we could, then go back north. Don't think that will change much with the changes to basin. Now I could be the odd one out and everyone else used basin a lot, but I'm not sure I am. Anyway change to basin doesn't seem to change raiding too much, at least not in my eyes. I guess it does make smobbing a little safer, but in all honesty as a fade you could just fade around to the different spots until you picked up tracks.

Not looking at specific clans or certain ranked players who have an additional perk in relation to PK, but more as the side as a whole I don't see that DS has been left behind a lot, but I could be missing something.

LS: Most clans received a personalized horse( removing a coin sink), Heralds, an easier way to exp with the added personal trainers(great addition imo), Broker, the shopping mall in Lugard,

DS: Flames between the different strongholds, flames to Lugard, Amador and Blodfest for trollocs, free to issue badges with a stat boost for a couple of the clans(all clans?), human blood flasks

Can't really think of any other changes to one side or the other.

[Lord Pe]

I have been out and about this game for about 19 years now (god..) without any long hiatus (3 months last years due to personal circumstances, and during the big crashes in the mid 2010's).

It would likely be impossible, but perhaps resetting the mud for a week to the 2001-2002 settings would be very illustrative. People would see/realise how much the mud has been smurfed down, with a regression of both sides to an ever increasing boring mean. I for one would love to run around with my 2001-2006 skillsets as a fade If people think that remorts are overpowered now, think again after that.

Alot of what this mud made so much fun was the constant and sometimes very unbalanced danger. Overcoming certain players or characters actually was a huge deal (I killed a fade! Or we took down an AS pair?! I killed a master and can now use his master weapon untill reboot!!)

This smurfing down of the mud creates boredom in some (where is the thrill from back when I started..), and a sense of entitlement in others (How dare you kill/trap/hit/weave/tickle/wiggle/etc me!?!) because they think certain things are unfair.

The Basin change, albeit not game-breaking, is just another symptom in this repeating cycle. I am feeling this is because most of our higher up imms are more comfortable with LS and especially LS RPing, and most changes lately are indeed turning us more and more to a PvE-RP mud. However, like I always say: on DS my RP is to PK! Not to snarl, growl, sniff Byrg's ass or whatever. It is to kill humans (or seanchans, I am not very discriminating).

I feel to make the mud more enjoyable, it needs to be made MORE dangerous, instead of less dangerous. This could be done in alot of ways: but removing scouting tools like Basin, will not manage this.

Without reiterating alot of good points made by Spyder, I do agree on his assessment that DS is monetized to much (be it gold coins, tokens) and DS is getting alot less "love" then LS. Remember: if LSers are less dependent on PK to get qps, DS will also much likely get less PK, which immediatly impacts the raison d'etre of DS in itself.

Kind regards,

Razhak

I'm going to agree with you that back in the day the more dangerous it was the more fun it was. I have been playing this game as long as you have and I started when I was 18 or 19. However I'm closing in on 40 now. Way back when I loved it whenever I ran out and it was just chaos all over the place. Now there's a lot less people and I really don't like the idea of losing stuff that took me hours sometimes days and for some people years to acquire because of something that is extremely unbalanced. I simply don't have the attention span anymore I don't have the will to constantly be on guard for something that is unbalanced. I'm referring mainly to the basin. It's seemingly getting more on track but I really could see that thing gone in not lose any sleep. Also the super accessibility to the South by The Darkside is extremely out of hand right now.

All that being said I do realize I can log on dark side and do the same things and a lot of you need to realize you can log on light side and experience some of the love you say you're missing.

[Zeeb]

I feel like some might be interpreting the more dangerous to mean "more dangerous for other people."

If 75% of the time basin is just finding a exper - that isn't making the game more dangerous. It's just making the game more dangerous for that EXPer. And the game was already more dangerous for him/her then me because I'm leveled up and hunting and have master damage and have experience.

I think the good changes to make the game more dangerous would make it more dangerous for both parties. New rare weapons are certainly doing this. The downing of combo awhile ago to get people back into dodge was really good for this. I'm sure there are other changes as well. But ask a new player, hell ask Eniram he seems pretty new or back from a break - pretty sure the game is really dangerous.

I don't know how you make it more dangerous for the top PKers as the danger is mostly just reliant on their capacity to take risks. Like Rig/Jaster the other night, they aren't in danger so much from other players but from their own bloodlust combined with city defenses

Fade attack could up the danger or if it is coding change the ABS gleamer to pierce with the 6d6 Damage - that might be nice.

I actually think the more(3+) FC's in PK the less dangerous it gets, because anyone with some sense just leaves.

Another thing I think would be really good for the game is if mob channeling was looked at, that would be a way to make everything more dangerous. Right now mob channeling is so random that although it is dangerous it is also very unpleasant.

[micha]

people are upset because they can't find smobbers to kill. The game is getting soft.

[guhadin]

A thought perhaps is this could be changed to instead of trollocs needing coin, a number of smob scalps (2, lets say DO/SK) could be used to obtain a level 1 warding(hone) and a higher teir smob scalp like KoI or Korvak to get your level 2 warding(harden). This would encourage group activity on darkside and negate the constant need for coin for what is likely the biggest coin sink on the side. It would also aid in re- eqing players and boosting peoples activity through social and quantifiable means. This is just one means of removing the dependence on coin for the side.

I think this would be fine as a solution to the basin also. Turn in any smob scalp to get in; keep the flasks around. I like the flasks at least, and found it much more comfortable to maneuver as a trolloc with them. But I'm not sure basin was a problem that needed a solution.

Anyway, people always get apocalyptic about the mud at this time of year. I agree with what Rark said. The incentive to PK for me has always been...the PK. Zeeb is also right: often when people talk about risk they mean risk for others rather than themselves. As always, the best way to get PK started is the same as its always been:

-Get PK started. Easier if you log on your least bonused basher and set off a scout or flock, rather than logging on your most bonused alt with other bonused friends and complaining that no one will fight you.

-Don't roll on small numbers with large groups if you want PK to continue for long.

-Stay logged on. I'm way less likely to start PK when I don't see other people on the wholist who will join in a fight if I find people.

I personally have been too busy the last few months to do much of this stuff - but it's still true. I am not at all worried about DS. It's never needed large numbers to function, and remains the easy side when it comes to northern PK.

[Lord Pe]

I feel like some might be interpreting the more dangerous to mean "more dangerous for other people."

If 75% of the time basin is just finding a exper - that isn't making the game more dangerous. It's just making the game more dangerous for that EXPer. And the game was already more dangerous for him/her then me because I'm leveled up and hunting and have master damage and have experience.

I think the good changes to make the game more dangerous would make it more dangerous for both parties. New rare weapons are certainly doing this. The downing of combo awhile ago to get people back into dodge was really good for this. I'm sure there are other changes as well. But ask a new player, hell ask Eniram he seems pretty new or back from a break - pretty sure the game is really dangerous.

I don't know how you make it more dangerous for the top PKers as the danger is mostly just reliant on their capacity to take risks. Like Rig/Jaster the other night, they aren't in danger so much from other players but from their own bloodlust combined with city defenses

Fade attack could up the danger or if it is coding change the ABS gleamer to pierce with the 6d6 Damage - that might be nice.

I actually think the more(3+) FC's in PK the less dangerous it gets, because anyone with some sense just leaves.

Another thing I think would be really good for the game is if mob channeling was looked at, that would be a way to make everything more dangerous. Right now mob channeling is so random that although it is dangerous it is also very unpleasant.

This guy gets it. Except for that fade attack bit LOL. I'm going to go ahead and say the vast majority of people would just leave if a fade showed up. And the ones that don't leave are stupid and soon-to-be-dead. And since usually you are fighting more Fades than trollocs anymore it would just be counterintuitive.

[Maegon]

I'll trade city gate defenses (which no one likes) for removal of mounted sneak (which no one likes). That would more meaningfully up the danger for those top pkers. But, you know, coding or player enforced limits.

[Rig]

All that being said I do realize I can log on dark side and do the same things and a lot of you need to realize you can log on light side and experience some of the love you say you're missing.

That's honestly the most mind boggling thing I've ever heard you say. I really can't believe your answer to not enough love for DS is to just log on LS and experience it. The whole point of this thread isn't just the basin, but to tell immortals that we really need the attention or it's going to become even more stagnant than it already is.