No need to recycle

[Arkan]

Actually a high water table probably means the cattle dung easily pollutes said water. Even a low water table has this problem, but a high water table, more so. There is, of course, the solution to set aside such areas for nature (as calculated by Petra's source), which, being trees, wetlands, and such, will mitigate climate change (as well as flooding, air pollution, etc). I am, of course, about to eat a large, meaty meal, but I did say I wouldn't strive to be perfect.

[landor]

One of the best articles on climate change I have ever read.

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... n-new-deal

I have long felt that the way we talk about addressing environmental problems is incredibly inadequate or else violently inconsiderate of the human lives that are the most vulnerable and cannot afford to just opt out of fossil fuel systems. I don't think the article per se focuses enough on collective action models because clearly those methods have been failing us - large scale protests didn't particularly improve sluggish climate change accords. But it really picks up on what's wrong with this personal responsibility model.

I'm happy to recycle my plastic cups and walk to places where I can, but this climate change nonsense is just a scam.

Have to agree with Brione here

I'd genuinely like to understand how you two have reached this conclusion.

Do you have a general distrust of 'expert' opinion? Are you in the camp of people who 'don't believe in science'? Do you think there's a global conspiracy between the apparently independent scientific organisations who have endorsed the idea of man-made climate change? Do you think the scientific community is simply wrong on this occasion?

Why do you think this is a scam? Who is perpetrating the scam? For what objective? How have they enlisted so many co-conspirators?

I don't really encounter many people who (openly) share your view, so I don't get much of a chance to engage with anyone on the subject.

[fiddler]

I r rolleh polleh trolleh

[Brione Furcas]

I r rolleh polleh trolleh

I don't, it is all about money. Billions of dollars spent trying to "fight" the natural cycle of our planet.

Ill agree we create too much rubbish and waste (see the giant ocean garbage patch) but to say we have more impact on the climate than things like volcanoes is just absurd.

[fiddler]

Ok. I thought brione was trolling but dude wtf is wrong with you

[Treach]

Ill agree we create too much rubbish and waste (see the giant ocean garbage patch) but to say we have more impact on the climate than things like volcanoes is just absurd.

You just need to remember all the polluting industries in all the countries in the world that are pushing out pollutions similar to mini volcanoes year round and this is going on for decades. And there is your impact on the climate that is worse than volcanoes.

If you can agree that a couple of volcano eruptions can affect the climate. Then surely you can agree that mini man made volcanoes spewing pollutants all over the world for decades can also affect the climate?

[Reyne]

to say we have more impact on the climate than things like volcanoes is just absurd.

U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) says that all the volcanos, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually.

Human automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide.

Like are the US Geological Survey people just lying?

In 2010, human activities were responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions. All studies to date of global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions indicate that present-day subaerial and submarine volcanoes release less than a percent of the carbon dioxide released currently by human activities.

https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/vhp/gas_climate.html

It's not even mini volcanos over decades. It's that we produce orders of magnitude more pollution than all the volcanos in the world do every year, for decades.

[Treach]

Like are the US Geological Survey people just lying?

I am half predicting that he will come back and say it is the lava that is causing climate change..

[Brione Furcas]

Like are the US Geological Survey people just lying?

I am half predicting that he will come back and say it is the lava that is causing climate change..

That's a bit silly. Lava is just hot rocks.

I am however pretty hesitant to believe anything the U.S gov says or does, lobby power from the U.N and climate fanatics being what it is.

[landor]

I am however pretty hesitant to believe anything the U.S gov says or does, lobby power from the U.N and climate fanatics being what it is.

I suppose this is really the answer I was seeking. You just disbelieve the findings of everyone on one side of the ledger. The mistrust of the experts' conclusions seems rather vague though. How do you think the US government's pressure, or the lobby power of the UN, actually works? Are scientists all over the world tailoring their work to suit the desires of some amorphous group of 'climate fanatics'? Are they just fabricating consistent findings with other people conducting similar studies?

I don't, it is all about money. Billions of dollars spent trying to "fight" the natural cycle of our planet.

This also confuses me a little. It's an easy, generalised claim to make - but how does it work in practice? How is it all about money? Is there some special interest group paying the scientists in numerous countries to publish dodgy studies? Isn't it equally (if not mostly) in the interests of big business to deny climate science, so there is no inhibition of their industrial activities?

It may be true that the official position of any goverment shouldn't automatically be accepted, and that commercial interests can place pressure on researchers (especially where research is funded by an industry). History has shown us examples of both of those problems. But I don't see how those blanket statements are a sufficient answer to the weight of evidence, unless you can really articulate how and why those factors are causing researchers all over the world to reach the same conclusions.

I r rolleh polleh trolleh

Also, I'm hopeless at detecting trolling.