Item Request: basic equipment slot sheaths

[Benito]

Imms keeping Taziar down so that he stops styling on Rig

[Taziar]

Forget the chest sheath...

Forget the laced boots.....

Can the leather boots, the one and only sheath for the feet slot, get a little love more than 0 dB 0 pb ?

*grovel*

*worship*

<3

[Grabel]

buy beltpack
wear pack belt
wear sheath back

This doesn't really solve the problem as the cloak will still be the first sheath and draw the weapon first before the sheath on the back. Thats why you draw the dagger before the sword if you have both sheathed. I don't mind sheaths in general, as i rarely use more that 1 dagger sheath and 1 sword sheath ( if i can sheath the sword). All i'm asking is to change a rarely used coat to no sheaths at all so that my retooled sword sheath actually becomes useable. As it is now, every single cloak sheaths daggers (that i know of). It used to be that the silk coat did not, and nobody complained about it.

[Taziar]

Sheaths work from top down in the equipment command output. So if you use the a hood that sheaths a dagger, that will be the first sheath that you sheath/draw a compatible weapon. I’m on phone at work so can’t look, but if the back slot is higher than the body slot you should sheath and draw sword over cape if you have a sword sheath on your back.

[Adael]

It's not. Cloak comes before back.

[Taziar]

I just had a huge revelation... first I must apologize for not being clearer. I get an idea and run with it sometimes and take for granted that whoever I’m sharing the idea doesn’t have the exact information I am using and it is generally because I don’t articulate it completely.

My apologies *bows low*

Thank you Elysia and Grabel for voicing your concerns, it wasn’t until reading them that I began to understand.

Sadly I am at work, so my complete explanation will have to wait, or perhaps I will piecemeal it out over my breaks...

To be continued

[Taziar]

It's not. Cloak comes before back.

Thanks for verifying

[Taziar]

My initial request was focused on just the slot and not what was to be sheathed there, to be clear for once... Projectiles! I had not thought about the reasons for people to not want more sheaths, truth be told I always figured that since they are static and don't effect anything if you don't use them that nobody would care. I had forgotten I think the dilemma of auto drawing a dagger when in combat since I have moved my daggers to my pack on most of my characters to avoid that issue and with the current incarnation most sheaths that can take a projectile also take a sblade. With Elysia's comment about people not wanting sheaths, and Grabel's desire for a non-sheathing cape/cloak I started to question my earlier assumption and started to reason out some of the coding/mechanical reasons why things are as they are.

Projectiles: I have been experimenting with using projectiles as a main weapon class. So far I have been having a lot of fun with them and feel that they are pretty well balanced for PVE at the current build. One thing that projectiles needs to be even considered usable as a main class is enough sheaths to hold a proper load. The mechanic of manual draw before a throw is necessary to not induce unstoppable lag. Currently the max projectiles(/sblades) slots a character can utilize is 10...

For example:

Code: Select all

<worn on head>       a camouflaged hood 
<worn about body>    a dark, hooded cloak 
<worn on arms>       a set of cloth sleeves 
<worn around wrist>  a sungwood bracelet 
<worn around wrist>  a sungwood bracelet 
<worn about waist>   a bronze belt of odd design 
<worn on belt>       a small leather sheath 
<worn on belt>       a small leather sheath 
<worn on legs>       a pair of earthen colored breeches 
<worn on feet>       a pair of leather boots 

After more consideration I believe 10 slots for projectiles is enough to utilize the class as a main weapon, the current state of the leather boots not withstanding. And more options within the lesser of those 10 slots would be preferred.

Coding/Mechanical
The way that sheathing and drawing works is from the top down. When you draw (without using a keyword) it automatically wields the weapon in the top most sheath in the equipment list. Typing draw here would equip whatever is stored in the camouflaged hood, if that is empty it checks the next one down etc...

The phenomena that we have all been dealing with for the last 20 years+ is when resting and you have an open sheath that is compatible with your wielded weapon it automatically sheaths it. Now, if something comes into your room and attacks you there is a coded feature that automatically draws a weapon if you are unarmed. This has been typically a scalping/butchering dagger and not your main weapon of choice and this I think is the number one reason there is so many against wanting sheaths as Grabel and others have mentioned.

We all need short blades, can't get around that. Short blades are coded as the only weapon class that is going to allow you to scalp a corpse or butcher an animal mob for meat. Short blades are the secondary weapon of all characters and something that people typically do like to have sheathed because it is less commands to sheath/remove your main weapon and draw to scalp something than to sheath/remove, get dagger pack, wield dagger, and then scalp.

Non-coding solutions
The first solution, and the easiest, would be to create a sheath (and/or adjust current ones) for main weapon classes that is above the order in the equipment command output list where daggers can possibly be sheathed. We actually already have one (or had, not sure if Itesh changed it in the recent sheath massacre).

Code: Select all

<held>               a leather baldric

The held slot being the highest slot on the Equipment command output list would insure that the main weapon would always be the weapon drawn in a situation where either you attacked, or were attacked when unarmed.

Another solution is to remove the short blade sheathing capabilities for every item above and including the waist slot. This way when wearing a scabbard on the back, or belt it will always be the highest item in the list above a short blade. Ordering the sheathes on the belt is in first worn order. So when using a sword sheath and a small leather sheath a player would need to equip the sword sheath first and then the small sheath to gain the main weapon over secondary auto draw. Short blade sheath slots would need to be adjusted for items below the waist slot using this method.

Example of short blade only slots using this solution:

Code: Select all

<worn on belt>       a small leather sheath 
<worn on belt>       a small leather sheath 
<worn on legs>       a pair of earthen colored breeches 
<worn on feet>       a pair of leather boots

More thoughts
Short blades honestly don't need to have more than one sheath slot equipped. No one utilizes short blades for throwing multiples because they have lower dmg output and weaker landing rates than any projectile. So you don't need multiple sheaths to assist in the manual draw aspect of the throw mechanic.

Setting all external sheaths to be able to be held I think is a good thing for sheaths in general. It gives the non-channel classes something to hold other than an oilstone or sandstone. The loads across stores would need to be upped especially for the small leather sheath as an ABS character would not have much available for a dagger slot other than in a small leather sheath on the belt if the dagger slots above waist are removed, remembering that gear with an ABS% cannot have a sheath.

I can't remember if Elysia once said that projectiles needed another weapon class to be able to be used in a sheath and perhaps this is why projectiles and short blades are always grouped together?? If so, is there weapon classes not loaded in the game that you could piggy back projectiles onto instead of short blades, in essence creating a sheath only projectiles would use.

Thanks for reading.

Questions, comments, suggestions, and flames encouraged!!

Taziar Medakan

"Are you a Medakan or a Meda-can't" -Mikoriel, LOTRO 2010

edit- I spelled LOTRO wrong... talk about Meda-can't

[Grabel]

Some immediate thoughts:

1. held sheaths sounds like a good idea.
2. Not sure about removing sheaths for shortblades above the waste, but might be an option. Alternatively just keep the slots on dodge/parrygear
3. Again, im very happy with 1 rarely used coat having no dagger sheath. (preferably silk coat) Think that would simplify matters.
4. I seem to remember 1 of the dodge clothing eq sheathing projectiles but not daggers. Will need to confirm that (think it was breeches)

All in all a well thought out post Taziar

[Tso]

Some immediate thoughts:

1. held sheaths sounds like a good idea.
2. Not sure about removing sheaths for shortblades above the waste, but might be an option. Alternatively just keep the slots on dodge/parrygear
3. Again, im very happy with 1 rarely used coat having no dagger sheath. (preferably silk coat) Think that would simplify matters.
4. I seem to remember 1 of the dodge clothing eq sheathing projectiles but not daggers. Will need to confirm that (think it was breeches)

All in all a well thought out post Taziar

Held sheathes is a terrible idea, I'm afraid. The held slot already had too much competition between rp items, pens, flutes, firesticks, fireworks, stones, angreal, and the dozens of other things you can hold.

I like the idea of having all these items being only projectile sheathes, so if that's your bag you can do it, without getting your need for a dozen sheathes screwing with everyone that doesn't need a sheathes in literally every piece of equipment.