Borderland banned gear change

[arya]

Part of the solution here is the punishment for abusing your position needs to be harsh and enforced. People will stop doing it if there are severe consequences.

Paitar hasn't and likely won't get punished for lying to have his illegal warrant stick. Immortal guidance was also not sought proactively as Elysia was paying attention and stepped in. Since posting here I've also heard he took scalps from PK without splitting. People like this do it repeatedly and it's often their word against someone else's. Now we finally have definitive proof of corruption, no one cares.

The reality is players don't want to police other players. Which is why I brought this issue up in the first place.

Most of my appealed warrants have been declined.. but if I somehow successfully appealed a warrant absolutely nothing would happen to the person that issued that warrant.

The person issuing the warrant has a duty to know their laws and when/how to warrant. Doing so wrongly, particularly when it's dishonest, creates all these headaches, makes people jump through hoops they shouldn't have to and wastes everyone's time. The people responsible for all of that can't go unpunished.

After being screwed by a few Paitar types and having your appeals denied because it's their word against yours, you eventually give up on bothering to appeal. It becomes too difficult and you just might as well embrace the warrant and kill them all which is probably where Bobo is at.

I hear some clans will take in ex seanchan qps intact. If playing a seanchan isnt to your liking perhaps you could explore that option.

[Cosmo]

It's got nothing to do with being a Seanchan. Cosmo has not appealed any warrants except the FD one if that is what you refer to. I have appealed warrants on alts and that has been my experience.

[Itesh]

This is what I don't understand about not being able to warrant someone that attacks someone else in your group. I literally just watched someone not only attack but actually KILL someone I am grouped with.

I can A. do nothing and pretend I never saw it. Then welcome him up north and trust him to have my back while fighting the Shadow.
B. attack him but deal with political repercussions myself.
C. warrant him because he is a firetrucking murderer and I witnessed it with my own eyes. <---- real life choice here

You guys are saying that if someone walked up and killed Moraine while she was out with Agelmar and Uno in Tar Valon or anywhere else not in Shienar, then they would just turn a blind eye and welcome them to fight beside them and trust them? Makes 0 sense. I could care less about the Cosmo thing but this can't warrant someone for killing someone else I am grouped with is stupid.

Agreed. The reason this pops up over and over again is it's a completely counter-intuitive rule, and one that only helps players whose sole RP consists of trying to murder people without having to face any repercussions for their actions.

It's a jurisdictional problem.

If you are an American visiting South Africa with your French friend and a Saudi Arabian assassin assaults your French friend, who responds to that situation?

The French (their citizen) and the South Africans (their jurisdiction). The American government probably won't get involved (because no jurisdiction).

You might not suffer criminal consequences in South Africa for intervening (defense of others), but it isn't your country's place to involve itself in the affairs of other sovereign nations.

Can you write a nastygram to the Saudi Arabians? Go right ahead, that's your right as a person, but the law is based on rules, and what you propose is against those rules.

Further, this also creates the niche for the Thiefbane, who are basically the Interpol of wotmud, they have agreements to exercise warrants of the many nations in the jurisdiction of most of the nations of the world.

Not to come down on either side of this argument, merely to offer interesting trivia, but I'm nearly certain British law applies to British people wherever we are. If I travel to a country where it's legal to kill people the courts back home can still have me for that.

[boboliosie]

Free the Bobo!

Plus I die fast up north, it benefits everyone when I'm bringing the fat loot kit.

[boboliosie]

Ok, I officially asked for an appeal on my re warranting after I was pardoned.

Or I guess from the Empires perspective, an appeal on them rescinding my Pardon.

[Reyne]

Not to come down on either side of this argument, merely to offer interesting trivia, but I'm nearly certain British law applies to British people wherever we are. If I travel to a country where it's legal to kill people the courts back home can still have me for that.

I am pretty sure the US laws are like this as well fwiw.

[Arkan]

This is what I don't understand about not being able to warrant someone that attacks someone else in your group. I literally just watched someone not only attack but actually KILL someone I am grouped with.

I can A. do nothing and pretend I never saw it. Then welcome him up north and trust him to have my back while fighting the Shadow.
B. attack him but deal with political repercussions myself.
C. warrant him because he is a firetrucking murderer and I witnessed it with my own eyes. <---- real life choice here

You guys are saying that if someone walked up and killed Moraine while she was out with Agelmar and Uno in Tar Valon or anywhere else not in Shienar, then they would just turn a blind eye and welcome them to fight beside them and trust them? Makes 0 sense. I could care less about the Cosmo thing but this can't warrant someone for killing someone else I am grouped with is stupid.

Agreed. The reason this pops up over and over again is it's a completely counter-intuitive rule, and one that only helps players whose sole RP consists of trying to murder people without having to face any repercussions for their actions.

It's a jurisdictional problem.

If you are an American visiting South Africa with your French friend and a Saudi Arabian assassin assaults your French friend, who responds to that situation?

The French (their citizen) and the South Africans (their jurisdiction). The American government probably won't get involved (because no jurisdiction).

You might not suffer criminal consequences in South Africa for intervening (defense of others), but it isn't your country's place to involve itself in the affairs of other sovereign nations.

Can you write a nastygram to the Saudi Arabians? Go right ahead, that's your right as a person, but the law is based on rules, and what you propose is against those rules.

Further, this also creates the niche for the Thiefbane, who are basically the Interpol of wotmud, they have agreements to exercise warrants of the many nations in the jurisdiction of most of the nations of the world.

Specifically being grouped with someone literally means attacking one attacks all of them. Sure depending on how people are currently engaged, the attack might hit the targeted one, but game mechanics are clear that it's an attack on a group. Furthermore, the comparison fails as these aren't regular folk walking around, they are high-ranking members of justice clans... clans who enact justice, and are often nobility as well. Even if we want to pretend that Shienarans would welcome someone who kills wisdoms, I can't imagine them welcoming someone who attacked a wisdom who was literally doing battle as part of a shienaran formation. But my main point is that attacking someone in a group is clearly, both bookishly and game-mechanics-ly, different.

[Cosmo]

As already discussed in detail and clarified by staff, you can't warrant for that. You will also find the warranting rules specifically mention that someone attacking you due to faceoff is also not grounds for warranting them.

For example, if I engaged Dixon when I actually intended to engage Reyne, but faceoff.. Dixon still cannot warrant me.

[Anor]

Not to come down on either side of this argument, merely to offer interesting trivia, but I'm nearly certain British law applies to British people wherever we are. If I travel to a country where it's legal to kill people the courts back home can still have me for that.

I am pretty sure the US laws are like this as well fwiw.

Difference being that the villain in this example is a citizen of the US. So if we replace the real life nations with the in game names: Lancers would warrant a shienaran citizen for committing a crime in Mayene, as there is an expectation that they follow their own laws everywhere they go. However we extend this back out 1 step and say it was an Australian (SS) committing murder in a country that it is legal in (Mayene), then the US (Lancers) wouldn't be the ones warranting them. It would be between the Australians (SS) and the murder country (Mayene).

Using real life examples is really a dumb argument given that this is a game and for gameplay reasons there needs to be some lines drawn.

Back to the real railroaded discussion. This isn't purely a seanchan issue as seen by others having the same issues that are not seanchan. This is one in game clan that has the ability to cut off character progression by limiting access to QP. They know this and are using it to flex on people that play the game differently to the way they like. What we have is a major part of the game, gaining QP, being gatekept by 1 group of people. The point here is that this should not be acceptable and abusers of this should be held accountable.

By not having punishment enforced on people doing the wrong thing you end up encouraging the action. In fact this discussion started because it was seen that the same group of people were refusing to enforce the rules around dark eq. What hope do we have of them self policing themselves for breaking rules? Plus why would they self police in this matter as it is clearly the new loophole being abused after the global protection of wisdoms tales of the light post was shut down by the staff.

[Reyne]

Using real life examples is really a dumb argument given that this is a game and for gameplay reasons there needs to be some lines drawn.

You're right I just thought I'd mention it I agree with you regarding the QP stuff.

Regarding what happened though and it being legal in Mayene... SS are breaking the word of their treaty if they are attacking Tower members in Mayene no? Just to clarify.