Clarification on policy concerning Seanchan Officers and non-clanned, non-hostile players

[raek]

Erasing that sort of thing by force is folly. If it changes, it should evolve naturally, either by LS clans banning the attacking of Seanchan by unclanned, or a variety of other ways other than crying 'your rp sucks, change it!'. After all, the Borderguards have proven it's possible.

You say it should evolve naturally. However, you then put the onus for that change only on the LS. How is an unclanned character supposed to use in game RP to naturally change this through RP when they're immediately attacked on sight? I agree that it should change through natural evolution. However, it takes BOTH sides being willing in order for that to happen. I am gald that it's been admitted, however, that this decision is not grounded in RP. Earlier, I said that if this is an opinion regarding gameplay or PK, I just wish people would admit it. Don't try to insult my intelligence by making RP excuses for it.

So, your opinion is that it's not grounded in RP for SS to attacked unclanned people on site, but it's important for Immortals to let it play out the old way rather than force change. I disagree, so we'll just have to agree to disagree in this.

[Reyne]

Earlier, I said that if this is an opinion regarding gameplay or PK, I just wish people would admit it.

Well, again, it seems like just a different interpretation:

They weren't peaceful, but they surely weren't murderers.

I think that they absolutely were given how assassin-happy their culture is. You are, by virtue of being a player character, a "notable" person and thus a target for assassination.

And again, what happens if someone refuses to be taken da'covale? They die.

However, you then put the onus for that change only on the LS. How is an unclanned character supposed to use in game RP to naturally change this through RP when they're immediately attacked on sight?

Send letters to the Blood? Swear the oaths and then try to change policy that way?

I'm not sure about other clans (or even Tower really) but I wouldn't warrant someone *just* for being oathsworn. I don't even really like blanket warranting Seanchan - would prefer to see them in the same room at least so my character can identify them as Seanchan outside of the who list.

But yeah, it is a gameplay issue also. That's true.

[Maeglin]

In the books, swearing the oaths did not change their lives very much. It didn't prevent the from trading with whomever they wanted, or travelling with people that possibly didn't swear the oaths. When they made the oaths, they just basically swore to keep a promise. A person that clans with an opposing army obviously isn't follow an oath, and should be hunted. However, a person who is not clanned could certainly swear the oaths and go about a normal life. Here I go brining up the damn book again.

An average person in the books didn't breed horses in Elmora, sell them in Fal Dara, and have dinner in Bandar Eban all in the same day. Some things just don't correlate perfectly from the books into the game, so you have to interpret them based on how the MUD world actually works. Again, average people stayed fairly rooted. Seanchan took over countries, and the average people in those countries lived fairly normal lives. There were (almost) no deep seanchan raiding parties. There were no seanchan preaching conversion and calling for declaration of oaths in Caemlyn Square, etc, etc.

[Marrek]

For what it's worth, I tried to roleplay treaties and form alliances with various LS clans (3 or 4) in the last few months. For every person that says SS should be treated as LS, there's just as many (if not more) who say no way would they ever consider even speaking to SS, let alone rp something out or form an alliance. Then there's the clans that just blanket warrant because they sit in their clan rooms afking and it's something to do.

SS has an identity problem that is not just limited to those people who play SS characters. The whole game has an issue as to where and what they want SS to be and those views are across pretty much every clan I spoke to.

My view would be as posted in the Rules on Tales. Any player is fair game to attack. HOWEVER, if you're a known rper or belong to a clan that should not necessarily be attacked by Seanchan (eg. Gleeman, Illuminators etc), then we all have the chance to use discretion and maybe think about how a Seanchan should really act. Trouble is, it goes both ways. There's a lot of 'rpers' wandering around with SS warrants and spamming 'k purple' as well.

[Taziar]

Why does everyone keep bringing clanned LS into this discussion ? This isn’t about the political/war interactions between the Empire and the Nations of LS. The entire point of this is the treatment of unclanned characters that are not warranted....

Can you log on the game and stat a character from Seandar?

No.

Because of the merger all lowbies are both SS lowbies and LS lowbies now, every member you will ever clan comes from that same group, so by treating the entire pool of unclanned people as LS only oathbreakers you are continuing the cycle of segregation making it more difficult to acquire treaties, forward the SS narrative, and gain new members. By attacking unclanned on sight you are making it impossible for organic growth of Seanchan culture to influence the greater LS in any positive way.

We are called “Wheel of Time MUD” and whenever possible there is an effort to make the game more bookish (see recent renaming of Cairhien north gate, and EF revamp for examples) this creates greater immersion and will be the main thing that will ever bring more players here, any argument against trying is self defeating.

I think a lot of this is a perspective issue where people are not seeing the forest for the trees, arguments for SS to kill unclanned humans indiscriminately is small picture thinking.

[Marrek]

You make good points, Taziar. The inherent problem is that for every unclanned who thinks they should be left alone, there’s an equal and opposite number who don’t think that and are more than happy to take advantage of it if they were.

I use the clanned to simply highlight that the perception problem is a two-way street. This isn’t about SS wanting to be purple trollocs. It’s also about LS expecting them to be. These things don’t change suddenly and there’s also opposition (on both sides) to that change.

I, for one, believe SS should rp more. I don’t see how to achieve it on a grand scale.

[Terinor]

For the record I only attack unclanned humans if they come near almoth/thr. If I’m strolling through andor or wherever looking for pk I leave them be.

[Taziar]

Marrek, my advice is to embrace the mission. Fight the clanned that oppose the Return, and embrace the unclanned that can move about the world. Just like how novices curtsy to Sedai have the unclanned (sworn) kneel when you enter the room. Make converting them to the Empire the goal. Unclanned are underneath the blood and the army, treat them like common citizens of the Empire instead of enemies. Allow travel to Falme and encourage unclanned interaction. Keep travel to Seandar for full sworn as it is, and if an unclanned acts up have them warranted and keep records. Teach unclanned how to act around Seanchan, so far the only teaching has been with the kill command and that is only going to perpetuate the same. Reward SS when working towards this goal, and discipline when they don’t.

Is it more work than it used to be when all you had to do was spam k human? Yes it is. Is there the opportunity to create something greater? I believe there is.

[raek]

Tazier expresses everything I believe on this issue, and words it better than I. He is spot on with all of his posts.