Google employee echo chamber dude

[tzao]

https://funnyjunk.com/Internet+Argument ... s/5025399/

[Firimei Lang]

I personally believe that we are a long way from gender equality. I think that things are "okay" and "kinda fair" and because of that, this insidious gender bias is very difficult to root out.

It's a lot different than racial bias and it's a lot more socially acceptable. I agree with Jestin's ideals, but I also believe that we are more than a single generation away from them.

Equality has covered a fair distance from where it stood. We have still a long way to go. The issue of equal pay and respect will forever be an.. issue.
I'm in no way a feminist and find the extreme views of either side illogical. A lot more women are in positions of authority and regarded as such. Though gender bias won't ever be a thing of the past. It is a wall that will need other ways around it for the blinkered.

[Drakmyr]

And no, your dung arguments did that for you. And "truth value of the propositions"? It's like you heard the term "value proposition" one time and decided to completely misuse it to try to sound smart. Swing and a miss.

you might want to touch up on some basic logic if you think i misused that phrase homie.

@jestin, i largely agree that gender roles shouldn't be forced upon children like the example of defaulting to giving girls dolls or boys trucks. i also think that if a boy or girl chooses to play with one or the other that that's okay too (and yes their choice will be influenced by the culture of their locale but good luck changing that, best we can do is to make it not feel as forced).

of course due to the very nature of how our brains work, we tend to like those are who similar to us over those who are different. while we can try to check and challenge these biases that arise from the very mechanisms that allow for us to live our daily lives well, they ultimately are still there automatically and have to be checked after they occur.

i didn't read the google memo because i have no real interest in what he had to say other than the point that relates to given what we know about sex differences in terms of what jobs/careers women tend to go after versus what men tend to go after, what is the appropriate % of the workforce that women should comprise in stem fields? trying to make it 50/50 obviously ignores reality too much, trying to not improve the numbers from what they are generally ignores the impact of gender bias and negative stereotypes. google in general though seems to have a decent amount of women working in technical roles, i think it is 18% which is roughly what you would expect to be in those roles due to the numbers of women interested and capable of working there.

[alima]

Quoting Madins link.

Women currently make up about 30 percent of the computer science majors at Stanford University, one key source of Google’s elite workforce. Harvey Mudd College, another elite program, has seen its numbers grow steadily for many years, and is currently at about 50 percent women in their computer science department.

Yet Google’s workforce is just 19 percent female. So even if we imagine for a moment that the manifesto is correct and there is some biological ceiling on the percentage of women who will be suited to work at Google — less than 50 percent of their workforce — isn’t it the case that Google, and tech generally, is almost certainly not yet hitting that ceiling?

In other words, it is clear that we are still operating in an environment where it is much more likely that women who are biologically able to work in tech are chased away from tech by sociological and other factors, than that biologically unsuited women are somehow brought in by overzealous diversity programs.

[Vaen]

I'm sure he'll read Madin's article right after he reads the article being discussed, which will definitely come after proselytizing for something nobody is even discussing. Can't let the actual topic or discussion get in the way of the "truth value of the propositions" (firetrucking lol).

[Drakmyr]

the first couple posts in this thread had multiple people remarking on how sex differences are pseudoscience. i responded by showing some links from the type of scientists who actually study such things which show that yes, there are some sex differences. madin's article was from a computer scientist, not a social scientist or a biologist.

i've got no problems with womyn, diveristy, increasing minority representation in high paying jobs or any of those things. i dislike when people misrepresent the science to try to bend to their political will. vaen can wish that the truth value of the proposition that there are sex differences is false, but that does not make it so.

can't come up with solutions that work if we don't address reality first!

[alima]

But your version of reality is that only about 18% of women are "capable" of working in STEM.

[Drakmyr]

"Culturally universal sex differences in personal values and certain cognitive abilities are a bit larger in size (see here), and sex differences in occupational interests are quite large2. It seems likely these culturally universal and biologically-linked sex differences play some role in the gendered hiring patterns of Google employees. For instance, in 2013, 18% of bachelor's degrees in computing were earned by women, and about 20% of Google technological jobs are currently held by women. Whatever affirmative action procedures Google is using appear to be working pretty well (at least at the tech job level). Still, I think it's important to keep in mind that most psychological sex differences are only small to moderate in size, and rather than grouping men and women into dichotomous groups, I think sex and sex differences are best thought of scientifically as multidimensional dials, anyway (see here)."

jajajajajajaja

less ideology more research plz.

[ecthus]

Finally got around to reading the memo, and it's exactly as I expected--garbage written by a nobody.

Many of the problems have already been mentioned. My main thought after finishing the memo is that his ideas about bias and desire are really elementary.

1. It's a classic conservative position to confuse knowledge and expertise with bias or ideology, and to think that ideas have equal merit and should be considered equally simply because they are opposed to each other. Ideas aren't competitive simply because they're antagonistic to each other. 2. His idea of behavior is that people basically do what they want, and that their desires well up from their bodies. It's the evolutionary biology equivalent of rational choice theory, and it can only explain the world in terms of tautologies.

[Drakmyr]

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/co ... fferences/