How should I come back?

[Aira]

I play because I like the game mostly and it's pk.

Didn't you say earlier that you don't like pk because you don't like winning? I mean, if you give off contradictory opinions more often, people are going to be leery of you. Especially if you have a history, whatever that may be.

That said, in CoL we even had a situation where someone was up for a clanning vote and no one voted at all. Clan rules state you have to get some % yes votes, to get in, so that was a problem. As Petra said, things take longer these days. Hell, CoL downed clanning requirements to just an rp/preaching log, but if no one votes, that isn't going to work. Not that many people are interested in CoL to begin with so downing requirements pretty much had zero effect.

[Rig]

Wrong A named guy!

[faul]

So I got an unknown char and applied for Gaiden again. I didn't tell anyone but 1 person who I was. I was extremely active, kept my head down. Didn't get into any sort of trouble. Was a good leader and fighter and did really well in pk. I think I was an applicant for nearly two months. Yes months...active. And when it came time for voting was denied.

a) You tell one person, you tell the world. That's pretty much how these things go.

b) If you didn't get found out, you failed on your own merits. Congratulations!

c) There's a fair chance that you're a bigger asshole than you think. Now, don't get me wrong -- there are bigger assholes, and maaaaaaaaaaaybe one of those bigger assholes had it out for you. But the problem with being an asshole is that when there are bigger assholes gunning for you, nobody really has any compelling reason to stand up for you besides, maybe, naked principle. And like you've made abundantly clear in your post, most of us are here for our own enjoyment and doing our own thing, not protecting little assholes from big assholes, unless we dislike the bigger asshole enough. My corporate social responsibility was usually reserved for the non-asshole targets of big assholes, because they came up relatively often.

[Dartes]

c) There's a fair chance that you're a bigger asshole than you think. Now, don't get me wrong -- there are bigger assholes, and maaaaaaaaaaaybe one of those bigger assholes had it out for you. But the problem with being an asshole is that when there are bigger assholes gunning for you, nobody really has any compelling reason to stand up for you besides, maybe, naked principle. And like you've made abundantly clear in your post, most of us are here for our own enjoyment and doing our own thing, not protecting little assholes from big assholes, unless we dislike the bigger asshole enough. My corporate social responsibility was usually reserved for the non-asshole targets of big assholes, because they came up relatively often.

https://youtu.be/sen8Tn8CBA4

This seemed relevant to the discussion.

[icarium]

I find this post pretty interesting as I agree with both sides of the argument. I have seen (and no voted) certain people due to them being toxic to the overall environment, but have also felt unfairly kept out of other clans. I have seen old characters that haven't played for years magically log on and no vote candidates. I have heard absurd reasons of " he rode a draft in pk" as the main reason of no voting as well. I have had many people who were involved in those circumstances mail me and object/sympathize to the obvious efforts of a few more prominent players to keep out others (which is interesting considering some of them have posted on this thread and said there that that never happens!). To say that that doesn't happen at all, or that certain people don't hold grudges for an absurd amount of time is truly laughable.

In my opinion, a lot of that dislike stems from people judging others while they fight against them. I have found that many times once you get to know the actual person, your preconceived notions that you developed while fighting this guy weren't the total truth and that the person wasent so bad after all. I guess my point is that, in my opinion, when people are voting on others, they should reflect more on whether this person would be a positive or negative addition to the clan and its environment vs how much they like or dislike their fighting style. On the flip-side, I think the people who have gotten no voted in certain clans, specially if its across multiple clans, should also reflect on their own actions to determine whether there is something they are doing that is alienating people (I did yoga and after many months of reflection was able to get my alt into the winged guard!)

With that being said, I do believe that the situation has gotten a lot better than in the past. The people that did hold grudges have pretty much moved on with their lives and generally dont go through the extreme efforts of keeping people out as they used to. I also think that the maturity level of both parties (appies & clanned people) has also increased, helping put aside some of longer term grudges.

PS. I would still no vote Rig in all clans... Some opinions will never change!

[Harun]

I find this post pretty interesting as I agree with both sides of the argument. I have seen (and no voted) certain people due to them being toxic to the overall environment, but have also felt unfairly kept out of other clans. I have seen old characters that haven't played for years magically log on and no vote candidates. I have heard absurd reasons of " he rode a draft in pk" as the main reason of no voting as well.

To be fair, there's also plenty of the reverse--old characters coming out of the woodwork to vote in candidates to clans who are totally undeserving, at odds with others in the clan, sketchy, toxic, and selfish, or straight up bad.

Many of the limitations of the MUD are limitations stemming from the source material. In Jordan's world, it's just better to be a Gaidin than the captain of the local militia, or one of the Chosen rather than a trolloc. That's fine for a series of books, but for game balance it's never good if particular classes, clans, and bonuses are clearly better than the majority of others. It's good to have something to work for in a game, but it's not good if certain endpoints are better than others. In an ideal world, every clan would have particular bonuses that made it attractive and competitive to play. If that happened, there would be way less need for players to monitor who has access to what bonuses--but that's where we're at. Introducing clan bonuses was a step in the right direction for solving this problem.

Part of me agrees with you that many judgments for PK clans have to do with fighting against the person, and that there are limitations to what you can know based on that knowledge. On the other hand, when it comes to bonuses I think it's reasonable to ask, would I want to fight this person if they had access to X bonus? Bonuses tend to exacerbate the playstyle someone already has rather than qualitatively changing it. If someone plays conservatively as a trolloc master, they're going to be conservative on their remort also. But for me, how someone is to fight against is typically secondary to whether or not I can trust them when I'm fighting with them.