As time progresses, the class of rogue seems to be getting nerfed more and more. I am curious as to why? If you hate the class so much, why not just delete it?
Nohides- Why do we need so many? 1 per city should be PLENTY...like the squares for instance. Less no hides would actually make people take some risks and go for those stabs at commy/gates and such. We already took out the rolling on engaged(which i completely agree with), so why are all these no hides needed? If people wanna sit afk/chat(myself included) they don't need a plethora of rooms to choose from. Give them 1 per city. If you take out the nohides, maybe people wouldn't just sit there afk all day(like me). We would be forced to actually be present, and play.
Hard hide road rooms-just a fact of life, and not bad....just another thing on the list.
Telling fades they can't stab(DISCLAIMER, I HAVE NO FADE)-...this is a game...why limit people as to what they can and can't practice? I understand darken, because it fucks with game mechanics, but give me a break. People put a ton of time into those chars, and maybe...just maybe...some like to stab? god forbid! Please don't give me that RP bullshit about fades being leaders. Not all fades stabbed. Some did, others bashed.
No more remorts from Ko'bal- This is stupid. See above point. You are punishing someone because of their choice of class. If you guys hate the rogue class so much, get rid of it.
Unique daggers- I believe we have already talked about this, but the excuse of "quest items" or "bugged" is kinda flimsy.
With the low numbers, this game should be a god damn free for all, not limiting players on what they can do; all that does is push people away. If anything, stab is one of the best setups for low numbers on mud. It allows me to smob, or do other dung solo when there is nothing going on. In pk, you can stabwar, or mele(though if you come up against a combo basher you kinda screwed). I find it extremely frustrating that we are being punished for a class choice or playstyle that we enjoy.
Eagerly awaiting the next nerf!
Frustratedly yours,
Loomis
Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
crazy, i was going to post something similar. loomis about covers it.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
I agree with Loomis
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
I can get on board with you about the nohides and the lack of unique daggers. I can agree that I am not nearly as paranoid as I was about stabbers even when I started 7ish years ago.
As far as having an alt to solo smob...nothing stops you from doing that. You can still roll with a stabbie alt. Just my two cents.
This, though, is where I have to disagree. RP-wise, fades ARE leaders. They should be leading, not hiding and stabbing. And it is of no consequence that some old fades stabbed and some bashed; the bottom line is that is goes fundamentally against what the remort is. The RP of the source material does not support that class for that remort. I can completely understand being told that a character you sunk time into cannot play a certain setup. But there are crazy RP hurdles in a lot of the game that restrict setups and characters.Loomis wrote:Telling fades they can't stab(DISCLAIMER, I HAVE NO FADE)-...this is a game...why limit people as to what they can and can't practice? I understand darken, because it fucks with game mechanics, but give me a break. People put a ton of time into those chars, and maybe...just maybe...some like to stab? god forbid! Please don't give me that RP bullshit about fades being leaders. Not all fades stabbed. Some did, others bashed.
Ok, that is stupid. A whole clan shouldn't be barred from remorting. I didn't know that was a thing.Loomis wrote:No more remorts from Ko'bal- This is stupid. See above point. You are punishing someone because of their choice of class. If you guys hate the rogue class so much, get rid of it.
Not to be too biased, but I find the only people who claim that stab-setup is fun to pk with are stabbers. There are a few stab players who will stand and fight, or roll stabs at opportune times, but the vast majority flee immediately and run a zone away to hide. That is not fun for anyone else (and I cannot see how it is fun for that player either!). Bottom line, stabbers don't create pk. Like vulturing channies, they tend to prematurely end the pk.Loomis wrote: If anything, stab is one of the best setups for low numbers on mud. It allows me to smob, or do other dung solo when there is nothing going on. In pk, you can stabwar, or mele(though if you come up against a combo basher you kinda screwed).
As far as having an alt to solo smob...nothing stops you from doing that. You can still roll with a stabbie alt. Just my two cents.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Ashlee, I don't think the RP fade thing is a valid point. There are a MULTITUDE of things in this game that aren't RP...if you are saying fades are leaders, and they should not stab, then by that same argument, no masters should stab...as they are the LEADERS of their clans.
As far as your its no fun to pk a rogue...then DON'T PK ME! Its like me complaining that I can't win, or its not fun for me to fight a combo basher..or charger...Just because you don't like fighting rogues, doesn't mean you should punish people who do. Your argument of the only people who like stab are the ones that play it, is a moot point...of course we like stab, or we wouldn't play it. My thing is why are we limiting players while the mud is essentially dying.
I wasn't complaining about solo smob, i was saying its a good thing! The more things that one can do solo with these low numbers, the better imo.
As far as your its no fun to pk a rogue...then DON'T PK ME! Its like me complaining that I can't win, or its not fun for me to fight a combo basher..or charger...Just because you don't like fighting rogues, doesn't mean you should punish people who do. Your argument of the only people who like stab are the ones that play it, is a moot point...of course we like stab, or we wouldn't play it. My thing is why are we limiting players while the mud is essentially dying.
I wasn't complaining about solo smob, i was saying its a good thing! The more things that one can do solo with these low numbers, the better imo.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
Not sure thats very accurate, I dont think the rogue has the moves to run a zone every time they flee.Ashlee wrote:the vast majority flee immediately and run a zone away to hide. That is not fun for anyone else (and I cannot see how it is fun for that player either!). Bottom line, stabbers don't create pk.
And creating pk? The mud was founded with the idea of being promoted as a pk mud. I think that ship sailed a long time ago with the staff deviating from that direction and here we are, constantly restricting the pkers left.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
I don't disagree that Masters shouldn't stab excepting in clans focused on stab, and that generally Masters should lead. But Masters are a game creation, not based on the source material. And Masters can be achieved through entirely non-pk means; indeed, every nation would have revered leaders who are not soldiers. Fades, on the other hand, are created for the sole purpose of leading the Dark One's armies. I also don't think restricting a single clan (i.e fade) from being stab is "punishing" players. It is certainly a restriction, but channies are wildly restricted on clans, the COL and HOL cannot group with channies, Gaidin aren't allowed to clan women (at least when I tried). LS doesn't have remorts at all. The heavily bonused clans are entirely player-controlled, meaning access can, though not necessarily is, be restricted on almost any basis. My point is there are restriction on most things in the game based on the source material. Keeping rogues from fading does not kill the class. Master or Rank 8 is still possible. Now, reducing nohides and creating new weapons? That makes perfect sense.
As for pk, I tend not to pk rogues or groups that have more than 1 rogue. And that tends to be the attitude across the board, at least on LS, because the vast majority of rogues do not attempt to actually pk; they either land the stab and get a kill or they miss and leave. There is rarely an in-between where the fleeing is strategic and not simply running to culhook or tower or back to rk. And my point about only rogues enjoying stab was a broader point (inartfully phrased I am sure!) that the majority of pkers are not rogues and rogues are (next to channies) the most annoying and, generally, boring class to pk against. Are there exceptions? Absolutely! Just like there are annoying combo bashers/chargers. I imagine that the way DS feels when a random fc shows up in pk and everyone tends to run to high-level patties or go in, the same is true for LS when a fleebie trolloc rogue shows up. It hurts, rather than fosters, pk.
Finally, if we are to take your overall justification, i.e. the mud is dying so why place restriction, then why not let people create remorts from character creation? Why bottleneck the Tower, just give EVERYONE Aes Sedai. Flood the game with herons so everyone can have them. Remove taint from MC. Let anyone be a DF without needing alt qps. I'm being facetious, obviously, but the solution is not to make this like DMmud or Kinslayer.
As for pk, I tend not to pk rogues or groups that have more than 1 rogue. And that tends to be the attitude across the board, at least on LS, because the vast majority of rogues do not attempt to actually pk; they either land the stab and get a kill or they miss and leave. There is rarely an in-between where the fleeing is strategic and not simply running to culhook or tower or back to rk. And my point about only rogues enjoying stab was a broader point (inartfully phrased I am sure!) that the majority of pkers are not rogues and rogues are (next to channies) the most annoying and, generally, boring class to pk against. Are there exceptions? Absolutely! Just like there are annoying combo bashers/chargers. I imagine that the way DS feels when a random fc shows up in pk and everyone tends to run to high-level patties or go in, the same is true for LS when a fleebie trolloc rogue shows up. It hurts, rather than fosters, pk.
Finally, if we are to take your overall justification, i.e. the mud is dying so why place restriction, then why not let people create remorts from character creation? Why bottleneck the Tower, just give EVERYONE Aes Sedai. Flood the game with herons so everyone can have them. Remove taint from MC. Let anyone be a DF without needing alt qps. I'm being facetious, obviously, but the solution is not to make this like DMmud or Kinslayer.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
I'd like to think that I don't just flee and run a zone away and hide and stuff.90% of the time I die its because I stay too long and melee or buff or I try to stab while you all hiding in a huge group that already outnumbers us. I miss the days of panthera and bkak and everyone. Where I could go to 4ks and fight 4-5 ppl by myself and actually have fun. Instead of ppl sitting in doors or at patties hoping to just get a cheese kill. So no, Ashlee, ALL rogues do not just run a zone away. Or miss and leave. There is a very small handful of rogues that do that. Most of the people that play rogues know that its hard to pk as/against a rogue and try to make it more fun. Instead of you guys sitting no hides or patties, go to well orch or some other room with 1-2 mobs. Same with DS. I only go patties when you guys bring double the numbers and we call to go patty. So many people forget about the 2 tree rooms or solo wolves/ogier/trolls/grass/bears.
Re: Why is there such a hate on for rogues?
lol I'm definitely not saying flood the market with herons, or make fades and stuff on creation...
Im just saying that constantly putting restrictions on one class or side seems counter intuitive...You don't think that telling someone that they now cannot stab, when stabbed their whole mud career, clanned, mastered, and eventually faded, is not punishing a player for their playstyle? I understand if you came from a non-scabby background or something(MAYBE), but if you were a stabber from the get go, why aren't you allowed to continue?
Yes master stab is available, and rank 8(If we ever see it implemented on DS)...but thats not the point. Not everyone is like me and has no interest in fading...some do!
I can honestly say that if I was in the fades shoes, I would have quit(or returned to Ko'bal if that was an option) over giving up stab. Its the char type that I choose to play as my main, and I have put tons of time into it...as have others.
Also, for those of you who hate fighting us...the amount of kills you would get if you just tried to chase once in a while would astound you. You have no idea the amount of times I live because of people saying "I hate chasing rogues". It's crazy...i can move like 5 rooms and know I'm safe because humans are too lazy to chase me. It doesn't take long for flee lag to build up on DS, so my recommendation is chase more, and chase hard!
Im just saying that constantly putting restrictions on one class or side seems counter intuitive...You don't think that telling someone that they now cannot stab, when stabbed their whole mud career, clanned, mastered, and eventually faded, is not punishing a player for their playstyle? I understand if you came from a non-scabby background or something(MAYBE), but if you were a stabber from the get go, why aren't you allowed to continue?
Yes master stab is available, and rank 8(If we ever see it implemented on DS)...but thats not the point. Not everyone is like me and has no interest in fading...some do!
I can honestly say that if I was in the fades shoes, I would have quit(or returned to Ko'bal if that was an option) over giving up stab. Its the char type that I choose to play as my main, and I have put tons of time into it...as have others.
Also, for those of you who hate fighting us...the amount of kills you would get if you just tried to chase once in a while would astound you. You have no idea the amount of times I live because of people saying "I hate chasing rogues". It's crazy...i can move like 5 rooms and know I'm safe because humans are too lazy to chase me. It doesn't take long for flee lag to build up on DS, so my recommendation is chase more, and chase hard!