America....

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Kordin
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: America....

Post by Kordin » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:50 am

Tolveor wrote:What i find ironic about Trump is that the far left in Europe should love him. Anti-globalization , anti-trade agreements , less meddling by the US in conflicts, anti-nato, Russia-friendly etc etc.
Anti-globalization unless done on his/Republican terms

anti-trade agreements because he didn't make them using his superpower-like knowledge in success and winning, sooo much winning

less meddling by the US in conflicts because conflicts are not his thing, like, at all...

anti-nato because he hates sharing his toys, like a true spoiled little brat, and especially paying for things, like membership..

Russia-friendly he likes the idea of the manly man Putin because he thinks he's an alpha male, in reality he actually has no clue what the policies are of Putin-Medvedev duo are and how they will/have affect the world

:)

Petra
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: America....

Post by Petra » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:22 am

Also the far left tends to be pretty big on positive action on climate change, equal rights and institutions to act as a safety net for the most vulnerable. Not so sure Trump is!

I think it's also important to understand you'd probably consider the centre-left in Europe to be 'far-left', whereas the 'far-left' are actually firetrucking mental :)

Firimei Lang
Posts: 1268
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:09 pm
Location: UK

Re: America....

Post by Firimei Lang » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:58 am

We're all doomed. Hate crime had shown early signs of rearing its dumb head already..

Kordin
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: America....

Post by Kordin » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:59 am

Firimei Lang wrote:We're all doomed. Hate crime had shown early signs of rearing its dumb head already..
Embrace the Dark Side.

#RigPrez2020

Protus
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:29 am

Re: America....

Post by Protus » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:29 am

On the plus side at least none of you are taking an alarmist approach.

Allette
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:33 pm

Re: America....

Post by Allette » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:02 am

"good news is everybody's so frustrated that at least we're awake." Susan Sarandan

Harsh wake up call. We all hate "politics as usual" but is it too big to force a change? One could argue that if everyone took their strong feelings and energy and turned that passion to daily dedicating themselves to keeping our elected officials accountable, be it locally or nationally, we would in turn be able to force the system to produce better candidates. I don't remember the last time I looked up what was up for vote and called my Congressman (or any elected official) to see what he or she was working on, how they'd vote, etc. Sort of pathetic, which is why I don't feel I have a right to complain about what's happened in this election. I can't be engaged on one day alone and expect an outcome of my choosing. I've got four years to work at this. I hope instead of apathy setting in I see enthusiasm remain, in myself and others - just not of the riot-starting variety!

Tolveor
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Location: Sarpsborg, Norway
Contact:

Re: America....

Post by Tolveor » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:48 am

Its just an observation. I'm from europe myself and on the left half of the political scale. My take on it is that it shows that the political scale can be seen as a horseshoe, where the extreme left and extreme rights are the 2 ends but paralell.
Of course, he is going to be a disaster for the environment, and that might be one of the more likely policy changes out of all the crazy things he have said throughout the campaign that he can actually get through there. So on behalf of global warming im very pessimistic.

ecthus
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:11 pm

Re: America....

Post by ecthus » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:40 pm

What I posted elsewhere that more or less sums my thoughts up. I'll get back to the ACA when we have a thread on it ;)

For the last year and a half, our attention has been fixated on each of Trump’s stupidities. As if it was news that a rich American treats humans like garbage and the world like his toilet. Leftist critique of his comments focused on repeating his stupidities and explaining what was wrong with each in order to expose him. But there’s no point in exposing a man who based his campaign on publicly exposing himself in the nastiest ways. You don’t flush a turd in a clogged toilet by repeatedly pulling the chain to make it spin around.

The left settled for being right, but it’s not enough to be right. It’s not enough to treat knowledge or facts like things that will overwhelm a person’s defenses if only you place them in proximity to each other. What you know isn’t the same as what kicks you in the teeth.

But the left has been kicked in the teeth now, and the biggest question is how it confronts its own failures. I don’t blame third party voters, or even those who voted for Trump. The left failed when it responded to legitimate concerns and disagreements, from both the left and the right, with patronizing intimidation rather than the hard labor of confrontation. Intimidation works for some things, but rarely for actually convincing someone that they’re wrong. Who would resort to intimidation when the facts are on their side? The left settled for generalized shock at the filth in the toilet--and mobilized around mopping up the overflow--rather than focused aggression on the obstruction in the pipes.

The way forward for the left is self-criticism.

pial
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:14 am

Re: America....

Post by pial » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:16 pm

ecthus wrote:
The left failed when it responded to legitimate concerns and disagreements, from both the left and the right, with patronizing intimidation rather than the hard labor of confrontation. Intimidation works for some things, but rarely for actually convincing someone that they’re wrong

The way forward for the left is self-criticism.
I voted for Hillary but couldn't stand many Hillary supporters for what you said above. The dismissal of criticism about the wisdom of having her as a candidate was met with charges of sexism, even among those who vote left and have no problem with electing a woman whatsoever. The labeling people as sexist if they disagree with you crowd really played themselves and I hope that in general the SJW types realize that they are doing more harm than good for their cause when every little disagreement is construed as possibly being linked back to racism and or sexism. I told idiot Zarth this was a problem months out from the election and he tried to make fun of me, I told him that that type of behavior was going to bite the left in the ass and whelp, where you at Zarth?!?!?!

Zarth
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:04 pm

Re: America....

Post by Zarth » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:18 pm

Lol.

Months earlier:
Pial: Trump could win PA

Zarth: I agree, in the middle of the state there are tons of people who could vote for Trump.

Pial: The left shouldn't be acting like Trump is like Hitler. They're inciting violence. The media is out there calling him a racist! They're just like Fox News talking about how bad abortion clinics are and then crazies go shoot them up.

Zarth: That's a false equivalence, the media is reporting what he said. What he said is racist.

Pial: Think about when Fox News put out that whole target thing with the cross hairs

Zarth: Yes, but has anyone from the left/media actually done that?

Pial: They just wrote this article calling his speech an "Overtly Racist Tirade". That's exactly what I'm talking about! They're inciting violence and diminishing the meaning of the word racist.

Zarth: He explicitly said that a judge was unable to judge him because he was Mexican. That is the definition of racist.

Pial: Everyone has biases!!!!

Zarth: Sure everyone has biases, but reducing a person to their race and then judging them based only off of that one criteria is the definition of racist.

Pial: Don't you agree that people call racism all the time for no reason?

Zarth: Yes, but this is not one of those times. This comment was explicitly racist.

Pial: I'm going to block you!

Months Later:
Pial: Zarth made fun of me and called me a racist because I said Trump could win!

TLDR:
Pial stakes out idiotic position. Zarth calls out position for being idiotic. Pial defends different, more reasonable position. Zarth points out that he's attacking the idiotic position and doesn't have an issue with the reasonble one. Months later Pial claims that he was defending an even more reasonable position the whole time and that Zarth was making fun of him for it!

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