Hey all,
We've bounced around the concept of a code of conduct around for awhile upstairs. We think it would be a net benefit.
One of the stongest things we have here is longevity and community, but that community is riven between groups with different interests.
Ignoring how you feel about other players as people, this is a game, and how we play together probably matters more than how you think about each other.
When we impose the rules, it's often either a one-off experience that was caught while an Immortal was online or it's something that is audited (and most exchanges with mobs have trails) and then punished fairly to the point of it looking excessive. In fact, players will reach out to me and say things like, "I agree with the rule in spirit, but sometimes it should be overlooked (in context of the experience)" in defense of the punishment of others. But, what overlooked in context looks like is Immortal alignment with the interest groups named above.
So, if we agree upstairs that a Code of Conduct is worth exploring (and we do), then this is to open the conversation for player feedback.
Here's why I think it's important.
1. Create alignment between players and Staff and helps create a framework for reference and reduce arbitrariness.
2. It protects volunteers from burnout and removes some guesswork. There are 6 immortals on wizlist.
3. Players need to functionally self-regulate and maybe this would helpp and reduce Staff workload.
4. It might bridge the gap between IC and OOC behavior. The gray area is where toxicity, cliques, passive-aggressive RP, and discord drama lives.
5. Long-term trust and retention. If you think retention is important and you also allow yourself to be shitty to people in play style or communication, you perpetuate these issues.
This space is fun. Some of you are not. And a lot of you refuse to communicate with people that you have issues with. We recently received an IC mail asking us to IC intervene in an IC complaint.
We all joke to some degree about what kind of person plays a typing game in 2025, but this is a good typing game. There are fun moments. The core mechanics of the game are fun. We might all want to change a thing or two, but if the game is going well, we'd all lose 15 minutes in a blink.
So, if I imagine what a code of conduct is, it notes what is frustrating to experience and includes how to resolve it. Or, at the very least, attempt to resolve it. So, what do you think? This is a picture, but I don't include anything I would add into a code of conduct or look for. Just looking for thoughts related to the concept.
Maybe there's IC code of conduct and player code of conduct?
Code of Conduct
Re: Code of Conduct
Can you explain more of what you mean by a code of conduct? Some examples.Feneon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 08, 2025 1:18 pmHey all,
We've bounced around the concept of a code of conduct around for awhile upstairs. We think it would be a net benefit.
One of the stongest things we have here is longevity and community, but that community is riven between groups with different interests.
Ignoring how you feel about other players as people, this is a game, and how we play together probably matters more than how you think about each other.
When we impose the rules, it's often either a one-off experience that was caught while an Immortal was online or it's something that is audited (and most exchanges with mobs have trails) and then punished fairly to the point of it looking excessive. In fact, players will reach out to me and say things like, "I agree with the rule in spirit, but sometimes it should be overlooked (in context of the experience)" in defense of the punishment of others. But, what overlooked in context looks like is Immortal alignment with the interest groups named above.
So, if we agree upstairs that a Code of Conduct is worth exploring (and we do), then this is to open the conversation for player feedback.
Here's why I think it's important.
1. Create alignment between players and Staff and helps create a framework for reference and reduce arbitrariness.
2. It protects volunteers from burnout and removes some guesswork. There are 6 immortals on wizlist.
3. Players need to functionally self-regulate and maybe this would helpp and reduce Staff workload.
4. It might bridge the gap between IC and OOC behavior. The gray area is where toxicity, cliques, passive-aggressive RP, and discord drama lives.
5. Long-term trust and retention. If you think retention is important and you also allow yourself to be shitty to people in play style or communication, you perpetuate these issues.
This space is fun. Some of you are not. And a lot of you refuse to communicate with people that you have issues with. We recently received an IC mail asking us to IC intervene in an IC complaint.
We all joke to some degree about what kind of person plays a typing game in 2025, but this is a good typing game. There are fun moments. The core mechanics of the game are fun. We might all want to change a thing or two, but if the game is going well, we'd all lose 15 minutes in a blink.
So, if I imagine what a code of conduct is, it notes what is frustrating to experience and includes how to resolve it. Or, at the very least, attempt to resolve it. So, what do you think? This is a picture, but I don't include anything I would add into a code of conduct or look for. Just looking for thoughts related to the concept.
Maybe there's IC code of conduct and player code of conduct?
Also, on the point about rule enforcement what about establishing a player tribunal system? Players vote for 3-5 players who will be on the tribunal, whenever rule breaking occurs that is going to warrant punishment you send the info to the tribunal with the info. Tribunal makes a ruling, and immortals take that into consideration for final decision?
Re: Code of Conduct
Useful to just talk theory.
Us saying here is a code of conduct and then pretending that changes how people treat each other or play the game doesn't ever work.
So if you researched what codes of conducts for roleplaying games or multiplayer games looked like and then tried to apply some of that framework to WoTMUD, what would that look like?
Us saying here is a code of conduct and then pretending that changes how people treat each other or play the game doesn't ever work.
So if you researched what codes of conducts for roleplaying games or multiplayer games looked like and then tried to apply some of that framework to WoTMUD, what would that look like?
Re: Code of Conduct
In my humble opinion, the 5 (+n) rules of the rules post is the code of conduct, as it somewhat clearly articulates what the rules are for players, clans, etc. of the MUD
Is this Code of Conduct supposed to supplement, or further flesh out what one or more of those rules are?
When it comes to this "Code of Conduct", what are the specifics of the items to be added to the current set of rules, and exact language of the new rules (if available), or topic areas to receive the rules?
For the IC piece -- a player can put another player on ignore/block lists, and receive no communication, but that player can still perform problematic/harassing actions against the other player. If there is a breakdown in communcation, does it matter whether the player is in the same room, the same zone, or logged in at the same time?
They can be in the same discord server, but once blocked they receive no communication, and most of these systems are designed to intentionally provide as little information about the status of whether somebody else blocked you as possible.
If there is a breakdown in communcation to the extent that a player requests an Imm intervention, even if in hindsight ends up being silly, I would wager there are usually some threads to pull in that to find the underlying issue/challenge/misunderstanding. There's certainly something to be said for the "does this need an imm to move both players into a timeout room to work this out immediately, or can this be handled via an email to staff over the next few days?" aspect of the issue, but that can sometimes be hard to judge in the moment.
The fact of both players being in the same room does not solve the inability for the players to work something out unless your idea of working it out is for one of the players to go on hiatus from playing the mud, especially when one side can be rewarded with gear and QP by griefing the other.
Is this Code of Conduct supposed to supplement, or further flesh out what one or more of those rules are?
When it comes to this "Code of Conduct", what are the specifics of the items to be added to the current set of rules, and exact language of the new rules (if available), or topic areas to receive the rules?
For the IC piece -- a player can put another player on ignore/block lists, and receive no communication, but that player can still perform problematic/harassing actions against the other player. If there is a breakdown in communcation, does it matter whether the player is in the same room, the same zone, or logged in at the same time?
They can be in the same discord server, but once blocked they receive no communication, and most of these systems are designed to intentionally provide as little information about the status of whether somebody else blocked you as possible.
If there is a breakdown in communcation to the extent that a player requests an Imm intervention, even if in hindsight ends up being silly, I would wager there are usually some threads to pull in that to find the underlying issue/challenge/misunderstanding. There's certainly something to be said for the "does this need an imm to move both players into a timeout room to work this out immediately, or can this be handled via an email to staff over the next few days?" aspect of the issue, but that can sometimes be hard to judge in the moment.
The fact of both players being in the same room does not solve the inability for the players to work something out unless your idea of working it out is for one of the players to go on hiatus from playing the mud, especially when one side can be rewarded with gear and QP by griefing the other.
Re: Code of Conduct
1. I assumed the Imms already had some sort of code of conduct in place based on the recent attempts to police OOC toxic behavior. I'm not going to reread announcements to find them all, but it seems like you all have attempted to tackle events that you previously wouldn't have touched. I was truly surprised when it happened but curious to see where you would go next.
2. I think its worth remembering - that in the semi-recent (lol, 2018, damn, we old) - when players were given an opportunity to police behavior - they rejected ie. the Shol Arbela Convention. I think more interesting though that the main Shol vote (which was close) was the dynamics of the specific votes within the convention. For example, players were against killing linkless players, (Brief aside - linkless is a problematic term to me because the most vulnerable player is actually "linkdead" in which they are no longer receiving inputs but still show as present in the game without a flag.), but not AFK players or naked players. I get it, within reason. I'm not going to summarize all of the votes, but its definitely worth a look to see that there are specific behaviors that players are strongly against - like banning same-side scalping which was voted in the affirm by 75%.
I thought player sentiment was off the mark concerning "killing crucial mobs". I think Imms are already on the opposite side of that. I once asked Elysia why mobs like the LS grocer were so high level (darkside used to pop it for cash). It sells lanterns, humans need lanterns, and so it goes. I have kids so I need to rent quickly and I would be nice if I could have the same horse when I sign on the next time.
I think these War systems votes have some relevance towards the game at large.
3. Similar to the above, darkside had some "public sentiment" a few years ago where they were routinely killing AFK players in human cities because - you should have rented.
4. I can't claim to understand exactly what Feneon is saying because - I don't do drama. I do get the feeling reading the forums through time that there are players who always negatively interact with each other. I personally think people should get off Discord and interact with each other in the game, but again - I don't truly understand the details of what is going on. The Imms could put in place some sort of respectful communication rule on the forums, but then they'd just have to police it ..and no one posts on the forums anymore.
5. Blaming the Imms for coding resources being scarce also seems unfair, but I can't help but feel that the game leaves open the ability to be a toxic player. The other day I tried to exp. A darksider came and attacked me. I beat them, but I couldn't kill them and they couldn't kill me. So what did they do. They killed my pet. I coudln't finish them and I couldn't exp. I left, came back - beat them again, but they immediately killed my pet and backup pet (a horse) so I still couldn't exp. Perhaps they were frustrated at how powerful humans players are becoming or how broken rare weapons+ gold combo is, but to me the real question is - why do I need a mob to exp. The door to be a douche was left open by how the game was coded. I am willing to admit - I've never heard another player complain about this other than to point out there are sometimes too fewer biters on darkside so how could it be a priority.
I did have a funny thought process as it was going on (I was frustrated). I thought about how in the past the classic response to this behavior would have been to alt to darkside at some point and either stab the person while they were AFK/linkless or to lure them to a door and mob them. Interestingly, the Imms would now intervene against this sort of behavior, but they would not have in the past.
6. I may be off the mark here, but squabbling outside of the game to me potentially represents
(a) an inability of players to kill each other in game and release tension. I feel way less angst towards people after killing them and there isn't nearly enough killing going on. The people who needed to be killed aren't dying.
(b) fighting over secret clan structure when clans should simply be about roleplay and their bonuses should be dispersed.
I have obviously written my opinion about these issues elsewhere. I continue to believe that issues with fleelag, combo, and rare weapons are becoming ridiculous. My memory was that when Vampa took over there was going to be a focus on people dying. To me - parts of the most basic aspects of fighting within the game have become worse.
TLDR. There are behaviors players engage in that could be "regulated", and some might even have a measure of high satisfaction/support like same side scalping, but I think you'll find that other distasteful behaviors will still have their supporters. I think you should approach some of these things incrementally to build support. Efforts at explaining why you are doing things go a long way for me. It will still be difficult. Wild example - imagine that you remove same side scalping from the game. Players will still want some sort of regulation concerning scalps that are looted from corpses. You all have already indicated you don't believe in returns. How will you resolve this .
We are failing to create a world where players can kill each other to resolve their differences. This game has had so many players through time who needed their balloon popped, mine included.
2. I think its worth remembering - that in the semi-recent (lol, 2018, damn, we old) - when players were given an opportunity to police behavior - they rejected ie. the Shol Arbela Convention. I think more interesting though that the main Shol vote (which was close) was the dynamics of the specific votes within the convention. For example, players were against killing linkless players, (Brief aside - linkless is a problematic term to me because the most vulnerable player is actually "linkdead" in which they are no longer receiving inputs but still show as present in the game without a flag.), but not AFK players or naked players. I get it, within reason. I'm not going to summarize all of the votes, but its definitely worth a look to see that there are specific behaviors that players are strongly against - like banning same-side scalping which was voted in the affirm by 75%.
I thought player sentiment was off the mark concerning "killing crucial mobs". I think Imms are already on the opposite side of that. I once asked Elysia why mobs like the LS grocer were so high level (darkside used to pop it for cash). It sells lanterns, humans need lanterns, and so it goes. I have kids so I need to rent quickly and I would be nice if I could have the same horse when I sign on the next time.
I think these War systems votes have some relevance towards the game at large.
3. Similar to the above, darkside had some "public sentiment" a few years ago where they were routinely killing AFK players in human cities because - you should have rented.
4. I can't claim to understand exactly what Feneon is saying because - I don't do drama. I do get the feeling reading the forums through time that there are players who always negatively interact with each other. I personally think people should get off Discord and interact with each other in the game, but again - I don't truly understand the details of what is going on. The Imms could put in place some sort of respectful communication rule on the forums, but then they'd just have to police it ..and no one posts on the forums anymore.
5. Blaming the Imms for coding resources being scarce also seems unfair, but I can't help but feel that the game leaves open the ability to be a toxic player. The other day I tried to exp. A darksider came and attacked me. I beat them, but I couldn't kill them and they couldn't kill me. So what did they do. They killed my pet. I coudln't finish them and I couldn't exp. I left, came back - beat them again, but they immediately killed my pet and backup pet (a horse) so I still couldn't exp. Perhaps they were frustrated at how powerful humans players are becoming or how broken rare weapons+ gold combo is, but to me the real question is - why do I need a mob to exp. The door to be a douche was left open by how the game was coded. I am willing to admit - I've never heard another player complain about this other than to point out there are sometimes too fewer biters on darkside so how could it be a priority.
I did have a funny thought process as it was going on (I was frustrated). I thought about how in the past the classic response to this behavior would have been to alt to darkside at some point and either stab the person while they were AFK/linkless or to lure them to a door and mob them. Interestingly, the Imms would now intervene against this sort of behavior, but they would not have in the past.
6. I may be off the mark here, but squabbling outside of the game to me potentially represents
(a) an inability of players to kill each other in game and release tension. I feel way less angst towards people after killing them and there isn't nearly enough killing going on. The people who needed to be killed aren't dying.
(b) fighting over secret clan structure when clans should simply be about roleplay and their bonuses should be dispersed.
I have obviously written my opinion about these issues elsewhere. I continue to believe that issues with fleelag, combo, and rare weapons are becoming ridiculous. My memory was that when Vampa took over there was going to be a focus on people dying. To me - parts of the most basic aspects of fighting within the game have become worse.
TLDR. There are behaviors players engage in that could be "regulated", and some might even have a measure of high satisfaction/support like same side scalping, but I think you'll find that other distasteful behaviors will still have their supporters. I think you should approach some of these things incrementally to build support. Efforts at explaining why you are doing things go a long way for me. It will still be difficult. Wild example - imagine that you remove same side scalping from the game. Players will still want some sort of regulation concerning scalps that are looted from corpses. You all have already indicated you don't believe in returns. How will you resolve this .
We are failing to create a world where players can kill each other to resolve their differences. This game has had so many players through time who needed their balloon popped, mine included.