Re: Smob project recent changes & discussion

[Feneon]

Looked like it worked on a test run, after the next reboot we should be able to see if the loader works and LS will be aware when it happens.

[arston]

Not physically possible. We're out of coded player file fields and mobol, ha, never in a thousand years.

Then dont use any new file fields, several mobs used to drop tps for everyone in the room when they died for years, it was ignored by the mud until some people started farming them and then was removed for being too OP. Seems like just moving that same mobol to smobs (rather than a bunch of sleep-stabbable mobs next to each other) would make the intended effect. If each smob gave everyone in the room 2 tps, then you could either join a group that goes around smashing everything and get 50 tps in about an hour and turn in, or you can log once every hour 25 separate times and kill your favorite one (not worth it, but who cares if someone does it they arent getting anything special).

The main point, however, isnt ANY specific way of doing something, its the focus on WHAT you are incentivizing. Our though process on here has mostly been 1) Make something that is generous enough to get people interested 2) make it easy enough people will actually try and learn how to do it, and 3) limit how often you can do it so you it can't be abused. This style of task/reward incentivizes people to figure the fastest way to achieve the goal and then zoom through it, often using specific strategies. Casual pve'rs don't want to learn all the specific tricks for those specific tasks, nor do they want to set up their pracs/skills/stats specifically at min-maxing those goals, so this reward system incentivizes leaving them behind.

The thought process should instead be: 1) make hyper-specific setups irrelevant (dozens of ways to do this, i could write an essay on this but to keep things simple im only going to bring up the one never talked about: long distances mean its more efficient to zoom ahead of the group, but if every smob is part of the goal then a group can do them faster than a solo person can regen for the next smob regardless of setup. 2) make sure rewards are for everyone involved, if it loads on the smob itself then it becomes more efficient to farm solo. 3) Make rewards slowly cumulative instead of limited by day. Any type of limit breaks a group when certain group members no longer get rewarded for participating and break off- even leaving for 5 mins to alt often causes the group to break apart. Instead it should be small enough that farming all day doesn't lead to broken rewards, but still be more efficient to farm as a group, the tp example given in the first paragraph is a great example of that, but the thought process is significantly more important than any single detail involved.

TL DR : Current high-reward tasks that have a daily cap incentivize min-maxing and solo play, as the largest gains are made by figuring out the trick and farming it relentlessly each day. If group activity is sought then the reward structure needs to change to smaller, incremental rewards that can be joined or left without issue are needed; an example of this is awarding tps to all smobs in the game but there are hundreds of other ways to achieve the same result as long as the reward structure is based on something a group can do more easily than one specialized, high skill player can do solo.

[Elysia]

The main reason we moved away from TP rewards was that we want TPs to reflect pk almost exclusively. CTF's are like the only exception. So no, it's not an alternative.

[plando]

this is what artson meant to say without a bajillion words:

1. Incentivize Group Play, Not Solo Optimization
Current systems with high-reward, daily-capped tasks encourage players to min-max and play solo, chasing efficiency over teamwork. Casual players get left behind. Instead, rewards should favor group participation and make solo hyper-optimization less advantageous.

2. Design Inclusive, Scalable Rewards
Reward everyone involved in a group, avoid mechanics that make solo farming more efficient (like drops only going to the killer). Make rewards slowly accumulate over time rather than being capped per day, so players can come and go without breaking the group dynamic.

3. Focus on the Why, Not Just the How
Rather than focusing on specific mechanics or mobs, prioritize the overall goal: creating systems that encourage sustainable, social, and repeatable gameplay. The tp-for-smob idea is just one example of a broader principle—build systems that are generous, accessible, and not easily abusable.

[Elysia]

I know what he meant to say. The convo went all the way back to "smob points", which is physically impossible because player files are full. This goes for something like % of all mud rooms visited and other fun things like settable master titles too. I specifically mention the last one, because that is what prompted Flash' answer about player files being full.

Mobol can't tally things, so that's not an option for 'if you hit x smobs, get y' incentives.

So Arston says to use tps, which is not what we want to use tps for.

Really, sometimes the answer is no because not possible, not because ideas are bad. It's why I elaborate on the why something won't work, because maybe that will prompt an idea that is workable.

Kitiara and I had a discussion a while ago about smob tokens, where you can get a token per smob, collect them into bunches of various values and then when you have X amount of tokens, turn them in for something. But, as we saw with chits, that will just mean people will hit the farmable stuff on the easiest to solo alt and then alt around the objects and that wouldn't achieve what we want.

So people can write very elaborate things about what should be done, but it's the practical side that is the problem. I could as well tell you: 'solve world peace' and that... wouldn't go very far.

[Kitiara]

Kitiara and I had a discussion a while ago about smob tokens, where you can get a token per smob, collect them into bunches of various values and then when you have X amount of tokens, turn them in for something. But, as we saw with chits, that will just mean people will hit the farmable stuff on the easiest to solo alt and then alt around the objects and that wouldn't achieve what we want.

I still think its an idea that could work... however the initial mobol stuff is a bit more involved that I realized.