Retroactive punitive policies

[gok]

Thank you Vampa for providing more context around the change. I personally feel that it is a very reasonable expectation going forward and I can see people being excited to help others reach their goals. What I wonder is if it would feel better and be less work if you didn’t stop people from gaining qps via other means while flagged but just made it part of the ranking requirement to master or R8. So for example some person sitting on 1.2k qps pushing for R8 who is sub 250qps for pk scalps can still advance in qps but know that in order to get R8 they need to mix in some pk? I just think that means less work for imms and less of a sting for those impacted but still the same long term result.

[jafra]

I think one small thing that is frustrating about this change, is none of the existing players that are in progress towards ranking know where they stand now. We don't how many scalps we've turned in already. Can you add something to the game to tell us please? Thanks.

[jafra]

The other thing I think problematic is this:

"We will however be flagging characters that do not meet the 250 qps from scalp minimum in a way that they will be unable to earn qps through Heralds, CTF cities, Dailies, Local Smobs, Nelso, and the Weary Merchant."

It just sort of shuts down the character for any further advancement until they go out and immediately focus on PK. I think you guys should have made it so they can continue to earn PVE QPs while working on their PK QPs in parallel.

[Elysia]

I think one small thing that is frustrating about this change, is none of the existing players that are in progress towards ranking know where they stand now. We don't how many scalps we've turned in already. Can you add something to the game to tell us please? Thanks.

Not technically possible due to mobol being physically unable to do this.

[Kazi]

The imma will check for you when you submit for a master quest. Then you will know. Also, I assume since they're flagging people...they will let those people know.

[Harker]

Half of the people in this thread are trying to raise questions and concerns about a policy change, and the other half are mocking or invalidating them. The latter are adding to a toxic environment that has grown in this community as more people have left, and it really should not be tolerated at all.

In a vacuum, this change feels fine and really isn’t a big ask for the majority of this player base, and I appreciate that it was done with an eye for fairness and not removing any bonuses for people who already earned them. Elysia’s points are fair and many people here agree that PK is the heart of what makes this game successful.

My concern is what Gok already tastefully noted: I think this policy change would be more palatable if it were delivered in tandem with an update from staff about how they feel this change will help grow the game, their vision for what it will accomplish, or other changes down the road that it would enable (like, say, revamps to master or R8 bonuses or LS remorts).

As it stands, this has added more checks and balances and introduced no tangible benefits to the players, so it makes perfect sense that people who don’t like to PK are going to see this as a restriction on how they want to play. And even if only 2-3 people stop playing because it removes a pathway to the accomplishments they want to achieve, that is roughly 10% of our active current community. That is not insignificant and it concerns me.

I'm interested to see which people you think were raising questions and concerns and weren't being toxic about it. Harker who straight up insulted the volunteer staff? Or is this satire? None of the posts that have legitimate concerns/solutions have even been responded to. Yes I am aware that most of them were after your post*

This change is also fine outside of a vacuum. It's 25 scalps. Not kills, scalps. AND the change is different for Sedai AND the change is different for RP clans AND you aren't getting your r7/8 taken away if you already have it.

Anyone who quits or claims they are going to quit over this change or uses the "enjoy your dead game" bit is both incredibly out of touch and likely going to quit over something else. This also isn't the hospitality industry and these aren't customers or drinks we are talking about. These are people that are fully aware they are logging onto a FREE game with open pvp in it. A game that, as far as I'm aware, for most of its lifespan has been entirely about advancement SOLELY through pvp.

Now, I don't care that people can advance through PVE. I was in the process of doing it myself when this came through. I'm just not the type of person to throw a tantrum when a bar gets moved. Especially when it's in a reasonable direction. (See: pvp in pvp game) I also don't have people I automatically disagree with when they speak because of grudges.

YOU CAN ALSO STILL PVE FOR 75% OF YOUR QPS IN THE EFFECTED CLANS

I have volunteered just as much time if not more than the volunteer Immortal staff in helping new players and returning players over my many years on the game. I feel like this policy was a great insult to some of the player base. Just because they didn't call me a potato flat out doesn't make it much different.

[Roryn]

Are you really doubling down and saying "well they started it so I can insult them if I want"?

[Harker]

I'm still not clear on what perk associated with 1000 QPs or 3000 QPs you're missing by not fulfilling this requirement if you already have them. For everyone else, it is a "going forward" requirement for a master quest. The ability to PVE for QPs has never been something associated with being a specific rank, afaik.

QPs via PK, QPs for RP, and QPs via PVE all seem to be considered separate systems and if you feel like there needs to be conditions on accessing any of those systems for future QPs not-yet-gained, that's not actually taking anything away that's already been earned via that system - it's just changing the price of admission going forward. Like, you get to keep what you got out of the previous iteration of the systems (QPs, rank, etc.), but here's what you need to do to access it going forward. That is how changes to systems on this game have generally worked, whatever the flaws or virtues of the previous iteration were.

I think the underscore is this: it doesn't really matter. This immediately read like a last gasp of WoTMUD randomly deciding several years too late that PVP needs to be a part of its core identity and needs to be a requirement to advance most character types. That's kind of weird timing-wise, but I think the reaction some people are having to such a fundamentally low bar for it (while counting progress made, in most cases, over multiple years and excluding almost every clan that you'd imagine actually fits the bill from the requirement) is also pretty weird.

That being said, I can take a stab at summarizing actual questions relevant to all non-Wisdom, Gleeman, Illuminator, KMG, and Aes Sedai (?) characters:

1) Is it unreasonable to have 25% of the QPs (25 scalps, 250 QPs) required to master come from PK?
2) Is it unreasonable to have 25% of the QPs (75 scalps, 750 QPs) required to get rank 8 come from PK?
3) Is it unreasonable to require 25 scalps worth of QPs (past and/or future) for current masters to access an end game of unlimited on-demand QPs?
4) Is it unreasonable to require 75 scalps worth of QPs (past and/or future) for current rank 8s to access an end game of unlimited on-demand QPs?

(The DS stuff is whatever - I don't actually know if it's even possible not to have your 75% of your QPs come from PK or TP turn-ins on that side -- does not appear to be drawing a distinction between craftable TPs and PK TPs, so this is largely irrelevant.)

You're losing the time. Say you have one character you really like to play it's already a master.

What you like to do when you get on the game to enjoy yourself is get a few of your friends and do a Herald.

EVery night you get on you do your Herald you have a good time sometimes it turns into Shenanigans sometimes not.

You get your two little Quest points and then you go to bed happy and carefree. Say on that same character you are three from the 25 required. But your life has changed so much you can't devote much time to getting into PVP. Or you just don't like it. Or any number of reasons.

Until this change you could just go about your business and if you wanted to get a buffer of QP to issue gear that was no big deal. Now it's suddenly something impeding your progress.

Have you ever stopped to think that other people play this game for other reasons and don't sit there and babysit their character every moment?


At any given time when I'm on the game I'm likely in another tab or playing another game. That's my journey and I know other people do similar stuff. I don't get into PVP anymore because it takes too much attention.

So the only thing to really be taken away with this change is basically the most precious thing we have and that is time.

The argument to just play another character or just do the requirements is just not going to fly with me. It's not going to fly with a few people. You're welcome to your opinion and I'm sure you know that old saying about opinions right?





Edit:

I'm going to throw an UNO reverse card in here. I saw on a thread that you can continue gaining the quest points you just can't rank? If this is true this is less of an issue overall. The way I interpreted the initial post was something stops you from Gaining PVE QP after you've been audited like you do the daily and you just don't get anything. If you still get the quest point then this is a little bit different of a story. Maybe someone who's been affected can test it and let us know?

[reil]

Maybe the real QPs were the good times and shenanigans you had along the way.

[Harker]

Maybe the real QPs were the good times and shenanigans you had along the way.

Do you wanna collab on a hallmark movie?