Aureus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:05 pm
3. The cases Feneon is mentioning are things like 2 players figuring out how to hit Evil Elyas using only projectiles, when he loads a rare uncraftable axe that is essentially a heron 100% of the time, and then farming that mob on repeat for weeks -- dozens of hits. These players kept the tactics quiet, and I can't say why, but a reasonable observer might conclude that they thought if it became widely known it would get nerfed (ie, it was not intended or gave an unfair advantage). In this scenario, the Imm staff has to 1.) put in place monitoring and then check it periodically for this sort of thing, and 2.) spend a bunch of time tweaking the smob to prevent these tactics while not making it impossible for a normal group to hit. I think I personally spent upwards of 10 hours monitoring and tweaking this smob, and ultimately I just had to nerf the axe load from 100% so I could move on to other things. At the end of the day, my view is it's really Imms' responsibility to fix this sort of thing and not players' job to always be worried about whatever tactics they are using, but it is a massive time sink and we're only human (and volunteers at that). So we do get annoyed and frustrated when it feels like players probably recognize this is too-good-to-be-true and then take advantage of it to its fullest and keep it quiet rather than check in with Imms. Then if specific players have been warned about this before because there is a pattern of it, it can start to become a problem and veer into "abuse" territory. It will never be a problem for someone just playing the game unaware.
Assuming the tactic didn't radically change - I knew about this before said group was farming it because Draz and I were doing it before that group. I did not have time to play as much as Draz would have liked and he found another group and taught them the method. I will say my impulse wasn't to immediately blab about how it could be done because a) that's not in my character's nature as a Blue Ajah and b) if it was more widely known then it would become much more dangerous to do (DS/SS might be waiting at the portal stones, etc) - and it was already very dangerous (see below). It also wasn't a particular secret. In my experience, Draz is more than happy to include people in the smob run, to show people what he's doing, and to teach people about the game. To my recollection, he didn't ask me to not say anything about it to anyone else or anything of the kind. Just because he didn't post an announcement about it, that's not keeping it a secret. IMO.
It certainly was not out of any thought that I was maybe exploiting something and wanted to keep quiet. Whatsoever.
Heck I even asked Austin if the angreal recharge on the discs and the wind blast on the circlet was something he knew about and if it was intended, and if I was allowed to use those. It seemed a little imbalanced/unfair to me! I still suspect that nerf happened because the imms weren't even aware it was a thing before I asked and you know, if that's true: I'd ask again and do it the same way.
it feels like players probably recognize this is too-good-to-be-true and then take advantage of it to its fullest
To be clear, it takes skill to clear that without dying. Most people we brought in there died. A lot. People lost sets more than once. It emphatically did NOT feel too-good-to-be-true to me or I would have asked about it as I did with the angreal. That zone is a nightmare. If someone aren't familiar with it then a deer is likely to kill them. Elyas' emote still one shots you if you fail a weave and don't
immediately flee out. There were
many deaths and trials before the tactic was honed in on so neatly. Even then it felt very dangerous every time we did it because one small error = death.
I would suggest that maybe, sometimes, imms tend to assume bad faith without asking. Literally not one time did anyone ask me (I can't speak for Draz) about the EB hits we were doing. Not once. To be fair it was only a few times vs the farming that apparently happened daily.
It was something I was excited to do with Draz in the few times I had the chance to do it, though. Now it's just another thing that is out of proportion with difficulty/danger vs reward.
and ultimately I just had to nerf the axe load from 100% so I could move on to other things.
Which... fair? *shrug* If you think it is loading too much, fine. I have no idea what the drop rate is now but if the result is just no one hits EB anymore then maybe it is too low is all.
Then if specific players have been warned about this before because there is a pattern of it, it can start to become a problem and veer into "abuse" territory. It will never be a problem for someone just playing the game unaware.
And obviously I can only speak for myself and am not privy to conversations between imms and others but just figured I'd chime in.
edit: Last thing.
Since Draz was told earlier in this thread that maybe it is the way the communication happens (I agree): In cases like Evil Braem farming I think it would be productive to reach out to a player like Draz and say "hey, so, you're hitting X a lot and it is having Y issue" (too many axes floating around due to 100% drop rate for example) and ask "how do you think we should handle that?" versus just getting grumpy and nerfing without saying anything. You might be pleasantly surprised and be met with "yeah, did seem like a lot, maybe cut the drop rate?" Now you're both working together to adjust something vs having ill feelings on both sides.
