Discussion Topic: Upcoming Weapon Changes

[Scrat]

Presumably can't be fixed with the current means, but I think it is likely worth looking at a coded adjustment.

[Faendar]

I mean you all know that I've only recently come back from a 6-ish year break, and I'm not much good but I don't see why so many people hate on ABS or warriors so much.

Maybe it's because I'm not very good but I've found myself losing and dying not because of my gear or the fact that I'm a warrior but because of my skill. I echo a lot of what Jaster and Zangief and others have said that it's a matter of skill. I've been trying to get better and I am getting better, and I know that I won't be able to beat the best PKers around for a while (maybe not ever) but that won't stop me from trying. They're the best and I can learn from them and get better.

I'm not trying to say that things can't be better - they can always be better but as one of the worst PKers on the mud, let's all focus on getting better instead of blaming eq or circumstance or complaining about things that really are out of our control, especially when we're doing it in a destructive unhelpful way.

[Sarryn]

This guy is spot on bravo good sir positivity breeds positivity negativity breeds negativity. I get it things are frustrating. Hell life is frustrating. We enjoy the game, if it’s bothering you take a break. Refocus and get well. We will be here. Remember it’s just a game. Have fun and enjoy it. You have a great attitude towards the game, good man.

[Drybones]

I know when I was thinking about weapon changes previously, the numbers seemed fairly good in a straight up fight. From what I could tell, abs would beat most combo setups straight up. But, I've been trying to reconcile my thoughts and experiences with the numbers, and everyone's experiences so far.

1v1 in a stand up fight, abs seems great. So in group pk when you're tasked with winning a bash party, you're solid. Maybe not 100% dominant, but better than most setups I think (combo I&g, masters with defensive postures are the exception). But, taking hits on engage really fucks you. Which is every pk context aside from civil war style stand and bash each other's heads in.

Upping damage on abs will bring back the ghar groups, and I imagine abs will dominate even number group fights bc it's harder to take advantage of flee mechanics/engage hits/random aggros. Either will even up the game in low numbers pk, where fleeing and motion become more important. And, once the fight goes to mobs, combo regains it's foothold.

Upping abs percentage likely will have the same effect, bc we are really talking about the discrepancy between average DPS. Upping damage and downing abs % seems a wash from that standpoint. The challenge with abs isn't the damage output 1v1, it's taking hits all the time while dealing no damage. Downing abs % will exacerbate the flee hitting problem. Extra damage might help you keep up, but I don't think it would change anything if both were done in tandem.

With one factor upped, it seems like abs would be the offensive setup, with a good chance of winning the fight in the open, forcing the defensive setups to defend at mobs, and make it less likely for abs to be on the run from the get go where they are screwed due to engage hits. it might be more fun this way, since the class that sucks at escaping will be less likely to need to escape. May even help warriors feel useful since they will be fighting at patties more often.

Either way, some setups are going to be worse than others in some fights. I don't really care either way, bc if someone beats my ass, I'll go to mobs and even it up. If I beat someone's ass and they go to mobs, I'm probably more likely to die trying to get a kill at the mob support. Seems a bit of a wash to me. Either way, if you want to get kills you have to risk dying.

That being said, combo benefits from postures more than abs. For the reasons I stated in the master damage thread, I think that dung needs to go, and it might help abs out a good bit. Been harping on those bonuses since they were implemented, and I won't stop now

[Skurk]

Maybe it's because I'm not very good but I've found myself losing and dying not because of my gear or the fact that I'm a warrior but because of my skill. I echo a lot of what Jaster and Zangief and others have said that it's a matter of skill. I've been trying to get better and I am getting better, and I know that I won't be able to beat the best PKers around for a while (maybe not ever) but that won't stop me from trying. They're the best and I can learn from them and get better.

100% agree, is why I never take rares from pk either - is not gonna help me cause I die mostly due to bad dlines, slow spams or misjudging the situation.

That being the case though, doesnt preclude the need have a decent balance between rares and normal kits. Nothing wrong with the fact that good players will have them more, they just need to be balanced in a way that is reasonable. (I personally think rares could be upped atm honestly but I'm no expert)

[Thore]

No, i'm getting the point. The point i'm making is a counter-point. It doesn't matter what you do to eq, I am going to kill people over and over again regardless if i'm wearing maze gear or a full set heron. It isn't going to help anyone at all.

Lol ok friend

I don’t think you get it, RIg is correct. It doesn’t matter what you adjust equipment to, he will still kill you and majority of the time.
I’m going to use in a quick analogy pretending this is baseball reference to dumb this down. You and Rig are baseball players and rig always get to first faster than you but your answer is we will just make the bases shorter so You can get there fast to. Rig still gets there even faster because he’s better and faster. Secondly, you say, well we need to change the bat because he hits farther than me. Even with a crappy bat you both use , he hits better and farther again because he has better mechanics or practices more. Thirdly,you decide let’s change the ball to make it harder core and heavier so it doesn’t go as far. Well now Rig gets hit by the ball and he shrugged it off because he’s competitive and wants to win no problem. But the opposite happens And you got hit by the ball and got bruised and upset and cried and Are now scared to get back in the batters box. Perhaps you never play again because you are scared to get hit and hurt. None of your intended results came to fruition because Rig is a better player and more competitive to get better while you are trying to changeRules to adjust the game to your skill set and less determine drive to get better.

There is a reason Rig is getting better at wotmud and will continue to improve. He understands that to a certain point stats, eq, bonuses, or any other excuse don’t matter . You as a player need to get more knowledgeable, make quicker decisions, not rely on maps, scripts, macros, or god else knows. This isn’t personal at you Thore, it was more a general post. However, judging by your responses, I would take a moment and self reflect about it.

Thanks for calling me dumb, friend. Give this a read if you have or can find the time at one of your baseball games. https://kionay.medium.com/skill-floor-s ... 1c559363ab

Also, it certainly is a dig at me personally. But that's okay dude. I get it. You just haven't seen me working at getting better because you haven't given me a chance ever. You just say get good and continue crushing people. Like I've said before and I'll say it again you're hurting yourself if you ever want to play this game again. That attitude will drive players away as it evidentially has already.

You and I have different goals in this game. I don't strive to be the best at PK. That's never been my goal hence I'm not very good at it, because I would rather have fun than just get good. Coincidentally, the same players who carry your and rigs opinions are the ones who are actually really good at player killing. Because you've put in the time and effort.

The thing you've missed is you can shorten the gap between a decent player killer and a good one, just like you can shorten the gap between a good one and a really good one. I know you're up there, but I don't even think you are the best this game has seen. Wish you was around to chime in, because I think you would have some actual good feedback to listen to. But that's all good, players come and go and come and go and usually they come back. Right now it seems like players are coming back, although you were still away from the game because you don't have time. But you do have time to chime in on the forums which is cool.

Anyway, keep putting down the little people and we'll see where it goes.

[Davor]

Wow. This degenerated into a cluster firetruck of good players saying they will always be the best.

No one cares.

Let’s repeat it in a better way - and tekela already basically said it.

What I want and think needs to happen is Rig in abs should be competitive VS Jaster in combo. Let’s throw out rares and uniques. Standard abs VS standard combo. That’s my ask. Bringing skill into a discussion about balance is beyond silly. Isn’t that a given? I’m sure a lot of people enjoyed tooting their horns though. Why do none of the top players play abs successfully? Most of them already play like pussies with 300 defense and 78 abs. I would cringe to see their play style if they “tried to prove abs is fine” and start playing their main alts in abs.

[Razhak]

Razhak went combo. Nuff said about abs balance.

[Treach]

This degenerated into a cluster firetruck of good players saying they will always be the best.

100%, we need balance between different setups, so that people have incentive to play them, so there is variety in gameplay.

Variety = more fun.

Dodge or combo or abs needs to have balance.

Channies or hunter or warrior or rogue needs to have balance.

All of them should have their place, and more than just as a newbie setup.

If an experienced player wants to be an abs warrior, then they should be able to use that playstyle and have fun with it. Just like the dodge channies, or the combo hunters etc.

That means that when you go into PK you will encounter more playstyles, which requires more tactics, which is more fun and makes the game better.

[Davor]

There are a lot of other things that disproportionately hurt absers. One round bashes. Auto flee bashes which give you 0 hits. One round bashes when your opponent misses a bash. All this leads to the abser taking damage while the other play styles get free rounds with 0 damage taken.

If we don’t want to up OB on weapons then we can lower PB across the board and make it 0 when bashed.