Feedback: Disc of moonstone updated.

[Reyne]

Been over a month now, right? Hopefully this is appropriate for the Player's Lounge...

My only thought here is can we adjust the issue cost of the disc now that it is objectively less useful? Maybe 7 qps so at least if you get a kill with it then it paid for itself?

Also, I feel like there doesn't need to really be a cap on the amount of turn ins one can do... 1 per angreal, 10 max per irl year? So in a decade we can get 100 qps? What's the danger actually, that someone will turn in hundreds of angreal and rank up that way? Barring exploits/duplication I don't see what the issue would be there. Seems like a lot more work than PKing for it.

If we're trying to reduce the amount of angreal floating around then letting the Tower get some extra incentive for RP around actually seizing the things might be good!

[isabel]

I imagine the issue is (lol-ing as I type this) that in the good old days the imms must have thought 'if it's unlimited, then people can just farm xyz smobs and have a smoberoo way to unlimited qps'

Please join me in lol-ing some more!

[Timmee]

Pretty sure an unamed green used to farm Mother Grolm for exactly this reason many upon many years ago...

[Draz]

I agree that the price seems very high.
That said there is an avenue already existing to reduce the price of issued items so I don't think immortals will be likely to budge.

RE the turnins - there are some characters who have significantly farmed angreals - in the hundreds.
Admittedly while you are smobbing and farming there is always the risk of someone coming and killing you, and I believe there is some implicit risk.

If its 1qp per turnin I think it would be more than reasonable to request 3 turn ins per year per angreal type

[Shiva]

Yeah I would most certainly be farming MG and the Iomm woman endlessly if they had unlimited turn ins, no reason not to at that point!

[Aloisa]

Make them wells again, increase the chance for it to explode or do something bad.

[Reyne]

Yeah I would most certainly be farming MG and the Iomm woman endlessly if they had unlimited turn ins, no reason not to at that point!

Pretty sure an unamed green used to farm Mother Grolm for exactly this reason many upon many years ago...

RE the turnins - there are some characters who have significantly farmed angreals - in the hundreds.

Easier solution than making players (and imms!) do an administrative headache of tracking 10 per year is just reduce the drop rates or adjust where they drop entirely, then.

Or, honestly... so what? The end result is people playing the game more. Good!

If you can farm the 850 angreal (to get to r7 after shawling) then great. What's the problem? Presumably that would entail at least 1000 trips to the Isle of Mad Men and many PK opportunities therefrom.

It really does seem like just some anti-PvE sentiment holdover. I do not understand why someone spending the time to farm hundreds of angreal is somehow doing something bad. The amount of time and effort spent doing that would be significantly more than the time and effort spent PKing for the same QP rewards. 7 angreal per scalp, and they don't drop every single time you go to IoMM! If they're dropping too much, lower the % drop rate.

Was anyone seriously somehow ranking to master in a week or something? I do not see how without abusing multi-boxing and botting. We're talking about something that would take hundreds of hours.

It makes about as much sense to me as suggesting that there should be a maximum annual cap on scalp QPs; it is the same thing unless we are openly stating that PvP is better/preferred.

That said there is an avenue already existing to reduce the price of issued items so I don't think immortals will be likely to budge.

On this note, I haven't asked directly yet I suppose but we have mused on it a few times here or there. Does the paying for lower cost to issue items apply to Verin's angreal? I kind of doubt it would since it would be accessible to all seven Ajahs.

[Bryan]

Easier solution than making players (and imms!) do an administrative headache of tracking 10 per year is just reduce the drop rates or adjust where they drop entirely, then.

It doesn't make sense to me to penalize all channelers via reduced angreal drop rates so that Aes Sedai may have a steadier stream of qps - that seems to take a very narrow view of things. Kin, Damane, Wisdoms, Dragonsworn, Dreadlords and wilders would all be penalized. That said, I do not disagree on rareness.

My general take on angreal is they should be significantly rarer but also have many more charges across the board, so they feel like a genuine "rare" item from the Age of Legends and are very desirable. (And up the issue costs significantly or remove issuing entirely.) Today many of them feel like a throwaway item, which doesn't seem thematic.

That might also make turn-ins, as you noted, a non issue.

Make them wells again, increase the chance for it to explode or do something bad.

I think this is pretty hard to balance as a malus since you can and usually do recharge them from safety (ie, sitting in a clan rent) - it already drains all your SP so it's not like you are doing it mid-combat or right before a hit. So unless the malus is permanent damage there is no real drawback to just trying again. And I don't think permanent damage like Stilling is a good mechanic for the game outside of RP situations like the Red Ajah Gentling a male channeler.

[Elysia]

So, curious at this outrageous cost, I took a look, aaaand was kind of shocked that it's 8 qps. That's hardly a ton. It comes down to 7 if you turn it in afterwards.

Btw, it used to be that you could turn in 30 total EVER. It was already upped to 10 per RL year because of the longevity of the game/ characters. If you're active from more than 3 years, you'll already be better off than previously. And note, this ties in with several other clans' "10 per RL year", so if we'd change this, we'd be asked to change all the others too, which is quite unnecessary in most cases, e.g. pk clans.

Think of these more as a standing quest that never gets changed, rather than a quick buck. Considering most clans don't have anything like this, I have no sympathy for wanting more out of it, especially clans that already have it among the easiest to gain qps.

Wrt looking down on pve, it's not that. We're in a multi-user dungeon. It's when players come together, the real action on the mud starts, when the place livens up. Solo or duo farming will just lead to a dead mud.

[Reyne]

I didn't actually use the word "outrageous." My original question was just "now that the disc has been nerfed slightly, can the cost be adjusted?" If no, then fine.

It's not that the cost is some absurd 30 qp number. The problem is that the cost is not worth the issue. If I'm just wrong and people are issuing these all the time then fine but seems to me that no one does? Maybe if they need to give one to a newly shawled sister and didn't have time to smob for one? Just seems like we've got this nice mobol sitting here going largely unused.

Don't think they should drop from any solo-able or duo-able mobs anyway. Are people able to duo IoMM? I guess maybe they could get most of it done.

If it is like this across the board then alright. Events with Defenders made it seem otherwise from limited angle I have. I thought this was an RPish aspect of the Defenders and the Tower, not just a quest that multiple clans had.

It doesn't make sense to me to penalize all channelers via reduced angreal drop rates so that Aes Sedai may have a steadier stream of qps - that seems to take a very narrow view of things. Kin, Damane, Wisdoms, Dragonsworn, Dreadlords and wilders would all be penalized. That said, I do not disagree on rareness.

The discs were nerfed because they were too prevalent. I am not aiming to penalize all channelers at my benefit. I am saying "if they are too prevalent, adjust drop rates." For example maybe Moiraine shouldn't load them at such a high rate (90%+?) given how easily she can be killed. They should feel rare.

e:

Think of these more as a standing quest that never gets changed, rather than a quick buck. Considering most clans don't have anything like this, I have no sympathy for wanting more out of it, especially clans that already have it among the easiest to gain qps.

I haven't even turned in 10 angreal total since I shawled (pretty sure anyway!) so it's not like I'm just grubbing for quick QPs. I can only speak from the narrow perspective I have, not being privy to all the other clans' information. Totally understandable if we disagree or if it isn't worth the time to revamp given the massive log of other stuff to do. Just postin' my thoughts.