Wheel of Time MUD

Experimenting with slice weaves.

Per the previous announcement (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15146), Slice Weave should add to timer lag.

This does not appear to be the case with an immediate follow-up flamestrike (started first) ending in ponr weaves from the opponent.

Also as a suggestion for improvement: Slice Weave should also cost the opponent the sps of the sliced weave. At the moment, it costs 7 sps to successfully slice the opponent’s weave and 0 sps for the opponent, making it a rather unfavourable tradeoff.

***************************************************

A Tangle of Thorns
A hedge of thorns separates the wild land from civilization, hiding a white
wall to the west. Only a small spit of land remains, edged in thick
blankets of blackthorn that sink their tangled roots deep into the ragged
remnants of the bank. Small white flowers dot the gnarled vines like
snowflakes fallen on coal.
[ obvious exits: N ]
Zone: Southeast Shores of Tar Valon
Door east: briars
Verne the Tower Accepted is standing here, riding a dust-colored gelding.
A warhorse is here, stamping his feet impatiently, being ridden by you.
A chicken wanders around here, pecking at the ground.

nod
* R HP:Hurt SP:Full MV:Fresh >
You nod in agreement.

* R HP:Hurt SP:Full MV:Fresh >
v
channel 'slice weaves' h.verne
You begin to weave the appropriate flows...


-
=
You sense Verne connecting to the True Source.

+
You sense Verne is channeling saidar.

*
*
Ok.
You lash out with razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit, severing Verne's flows.


* R HP:Hurt SP:Full MV:Fresh >
a
channel 'flame strike' h.verne
You begin to weave the appropriate flows...


You sense Verne is channeling saidar.

-
=
+
*
*
+
=
Ok.
Streaks of fire flow from your hands, burning Verne.

* R HP:Hurt SP:Strong MV:Fresh - Verne: Hurt >

You gasp in pain as streaks of fire from Verne burn your body!

* R HP:Wounded SP:Strong MV:Fresh - Verne: Hurt >

If you time your weaves correctly it does add enough lag that they can’t land a ponr weave.

Also, it does cost them sps as spells cost a set amount of spell points to start casting now, making it very favorable.

Rig wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 8:40 pm

Also, it does cost them sps as spells cost a set amount of spell points to start casting now, making it very favorable.

This is only true for a couple, largely AoE weaves I believe - stuff like fs and fball don't cost sps to start.

Rig wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 8:40 pm

If you time your weaves correctly it does add enough lag that they can’t land a ponr weave.

In the case for flame strike, the log does not appear to show that this lag exists. Could you perhaps show an example?

Would the added lag be more pronounced for a longer timer like ice spikes/fireball.

Cera wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 9:04 pm

Rig wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 8:40 pm

If you time your weaves correctly it does add enough lag that they can’t land a ponr weave.

In the case for flame strike, the log does not appear to show that this lag exists. Could you perhaps show an example?

I would recommend testing this by grabbing two people: one as a target for the weave, and one who uses a single emote (e.g., clap) as fast as they can. It’s spammy but you will be able to use that as a timer for pulses.

Having reread the post - Slice Weaves now very briefly delays the victim if it successfully interrupts a weave., there may be an misinterpretation.

Could be that the weave length is the same and that you have lag similar to brick lag albeit much much shorter

There's a very short lag on it. If someone is fast, they'll be able to land a ponr flamestrike after the lag. If someone is slow, you're better off flamestriking them. There are uses for it depending on opponent's speed and ability, but I haven't found it worth it.

Increasing the lag would likely make it too powerful, so not sure on the fix.

I understand that the intention of slice weave was to introduce a slight lag on the target after you slice their weaves. The purpose of this testing was to find out how long that lag was. In our test there was absolutely no increase in time from how long it took to start a weave.

To explain our results i wish to first stress that there is ALWAYS inherent lag, when you send the command for ANY weave its not going to go through until the next pulse (roughly .25 seconds) even with a perfect link, which is why you can pre-emptively start weaving your next weave right before your last one finishes, and start a weave the same pulse as one of your weave finishes.

From searching my timestamped logs i found i average just over half a second lag normally between when i send the command and when the weave starts rolling. Out of the 30 weaves that looked at all fell between .3 seconds and .7 seconds for a normal weave with the majority around .55 seconds.
During the test we have multiple examples where i sent the command and it started rolling a weave, both immediately after getting hit with the slice weave and one of them (bolded and underlined) is even less than half a second of getting hit by the slice weave (shorter than my average lag)

16:22:27.029 Cera lashes out with razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit.
16:22:27.037 Ouch! Razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit sever your weave!

16:22:27.230 * R HP:Scratched SP:Full MV:Fresh >
16:22:27.404 channel 'flame strike' 1.cera
16:22:27.778 You begin to weave the appropriate flows...



16:22:52.741 Cera lashes out with razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit.
16:22:52.749 Ouch! Razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit sever your weave!

16:22:52.963 * R HP:Scratched SP:Full MV:Fresh >
16:22:53.214 channel 'flame strike' 1.cera
16:22:53.740 You begin to weave the appropriate flows...




16:23:09.570 Cera lashes out with razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit.
16:23:09.578 Ouch! Razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit sever your weave!

16:23:09.603 channel 'flame strike' 1.cera
16:23:09.782 * R HP:Scratched SP:Full MV:Fresh >
16:23:10.073 You begin to weave the appropriate flows...



16:27:18.648 Cera lashes out with razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit.
16:27:18.656 Ouch! Razor-fine ribbons of Fire and Spirit sever your weave!

16:27:18.866 * R HP:Healthy SP:Full MV:Fresh >
16:27:18.935 channel 'flame strike' 1.cera
16:27:19.385 You begin to weave the appropriate flows...

realized that the conclusion was not as clear as i had intended. The 0.55 seconds i refered to is between when i got hit by the slice weave is made up of three parts:
1) my personal reaction time between when Cera's slice weave landed and I sent my command (reduced significantly because we were testing for it and i knew it was coming so i could send my weave before i saw it land)
2) the lag supposedly introduced from the slice weave command
3) the normal lag based on my link that passes between when i send a weave command and the weave actually starts rolling.

even if the slice weave only accounted for 1 pulse lag (the smallest unit of time in the game as far as I'm aware, about .25 seconds) that would mean that my link while testing it combined with any error in my timing was still faster than my link was the whole rest of the day, which while very unlikely doesn't actually PROVE that there isn't a single pulse of lag added from the weave, but means its very unlikely, and my link just isnt fast enough to prove it one way or another.

I have personally tested this and there is a lag on a NA link. Interesting if non-NA links perceive the lag differently, or not at all.